Remy I honestly think you’re looking at different rather than distinctly better. All three have the BBC heritage sound. Your BC-1’s are classics. Harbeth use Radial material technology for their woofers which they and others say provides tighter more realistic bass. Others prefer your Spendors polypropylene woofers for overall sweetness. I think they’re all great and you really need to listen for yourself. By the way, both Harbeth and Spendor still make great speakers new as do Falcon Acoustics, Stirling, and Graham. Have fun.
Very different voicings. For a more linear progression from your BC-1s, look for a pair of 1/2Es or SP100s.
Wow, you’ve got an impressive amount of equipment! With all of those choices, what are you settling on these days? Sell a chunk of it, and get a $15k set of Harbeths?
Since I retired at the end of 2018, I have my gear in storage and am currently in Tennessee. Some of my gear have found new homes with our fellow forum members. I don't think that $15k monkey coffins are in my immediate plans!
Have you tried some of the more modern horns - granted some of them are ridiculously expensive but one thing I am envious of is having the time and the space that you have being retired. Perhaps look at those Line Magnetic speakers - I suggest looking at direct from HK or China as the price saving will be rather massive. Or something like the open baffle horns from Pure Audio Project. Granted not everyone is a fan but they aren't boxes - they are part horn but offer, in general, a more neutral controlled balance. And also high efficiency. I believe they're all under $10k which is still expensive but not expensive compared to much of the market. Happy with 3 watts or so so you can use all your amps on them. I have only heard them under show conditions but liked them in spite of that. The Quintett 15 was one of my top speakers at one show. I like them because you can add to the speaker - change the caps etc and make adjustments - kind of DIY for dummies. The wiring is screwed in not soldered so unscrew the cap and screw in a new one! So you know me - I would be buying the Audio Note Cap to stick in there! LOL You can also bypass the caps altogether and Nelson Pass has designed something specifically for Pure Audio Project - check out the Steve Guttenberg review as he has more behind the scenes information. Peter Breuninger always plays Anne Bisson because he has copyright permission to play her. Of course, sound from youtube is somewhat next to useless. Still, you get to see the size and build and listening impression. The Quintette 15 here is $9,950. They're a pretty good deal IMO. I will consider them for my place in Canada down the road. If they went through a US dealer they would be $18,000+ Quintet15, Wall of Sound Modular Open Baffle Speakers for Large Rooms - PureAudioProject
No... For exactly this reason... The space I happened to have while operating a 60-year old motel. The same goes for the time. For a period of ten years, I was there 24/7 x 365 days! I have "looked" at them. Quite intriguing, I must say. No doubt. But in HK, you can step in a single building and have, at your fingertips, inventory that you would otherwise have to travel all over the U.S. to audition. Another thing that I find intriguing. I have never been in the same room with open baffle speakers. It is a concept that I can't quite get a grasp of. All of my life, I have listened to speakers that were constrained within enclosures, where the enclosure is equally as important as the drivers themselves (if not more so). And now, we have speakers without any attempt of an enclosure, only drivers screwed into a front baffle? While I will Chromecast YouTube videos, I never view and listen to audio demo's on YT.
For my 30.1 grill removal, I pull them using a magnetic stud finder with a piece of paper towel or cloth underneath for protection. Works great with one of these.
Harbeth significant price increase on April 1st 2021. In case you are on the fence. https://6ddf08e6-b9a8-4e04-b4b1-849...d/6ddf08_6494bb1f6896402aaf78f4300ccda684.pdf
Where I come from the new price for P3ESR XD is $4.3k ... we don’t have a high sales tax or GST or VAT. Was $3.4k. Fun eh? Our new price for 40.3 is $27.8k. What a load of crock!
Sad. Wonder what manufacturing price is. So new thread. Which speaker comes close to the Harbeth sound but cost half the price?
None really sound like it but the Harbeth sound is not that special or magical. With the new prices it’s nuts. I rather settle for the Dynaudio Special Forty or ProAc D2R instead of the M30.2 XD. It’s a lot cheaper and sounds great.
Well if such a thing existed Harbeth would not be in business. It's not about better or worse it's about whether something is unique. If you want the Harbeth sound signature you have to buy a Harbeth. If you want a Magnepan or Audio Note or Wilson Audio or B&W sonic signature you pays your money because none of them sound alike. Sure some speakers may sound a lot alike but not exactly. You may like a speaker from one maker at $2k but at $6k you might like something else better or $20k or $50k. It's not much different than any pricey purchase. A lot of folks buy $40,000 cars without much second thought. But $40k can buy you wildly different transportation - one guy wants a sports car another a minivan another an off-road SUV. Some like speed others like comfort some like a middle ground. Then some people will add $20,000 for the features others think it is silly and stick to the base model. The P3ESR is based on the LS-3/5a so in theory you could try a bunch of them and see if you like them as much or "close enough" for less money. Err but the best one I have heard is the new Rogers LS-3/5a 15 ohm version. I like it more than the P3 but then not much more and it is just as expensive so it defeats the purpose. I reviewed an Audio Space (the good one not their cheapie version) and I think the Harbeth is better enough that I would buy a used P3ESR over the Audio Space. Besides if you buy your second or third choice it may eat at your soul for not ponying up for what you really wanted. The simple solution - buy a used one now before the sellers catch wind of the price increase. When the new one goes up in price - it lifts the price of the used ones. My 17-year-old Audio Note OTO Phono SE currently fetches $2100-$2400USD on the second-hand market. I paid $1800 Canadian for it back then. Factor in the exchange - pretty good - 17 years of a free amplifier! Go get a 10-year-old P3ESR and hey - it's already broken in for ya.
well it terms of value for money, get a harbeth 40.2 used for about 14k cad. or 8k for 40.1 buying the 40.3 new cad at 27k is absurd
Yes indeed...that’s what I did awhile back, right here on SHF! https://forums.stevehoffman.tv/threads/harbeth-p3esr-special-edition-speakers-rosewood.885307/
the thing about the sound of harbeth speakers, i mean i have tried to find lower priced speakers and even competitively priced and they sound good and do some things well but have flaws. flaws that become deal breakers. harbeth seems to have hidden their flaws or made them less obvious on top of doing some things exceedingly well. the prices are crazy but unfortunately that is the price of admission to their sound.
But it's important to recognize that other people like me have heard most all of the Harbeths (and at the same dealer in the same room on the same gear) and so what you deem the least flawed is not the same as what I would consider the least flawed - otherwise I'd own a Harbeth. Every speaker is heavily, very heavily, flawed and it's which balance of flaws is least bothersome to you and to the music you play. Dealers are quite good at playing music to the strength of the speaker. Soundhounds who sell my speakers, Harbeth, Kef, B&W, Paradigm, Dynaudio, Magnepan, Quad, etc noted that with Magnepan they really liked to control the volume level and the style of music to hide their weaknesses - so music will panning effects to show off the lateral sound staging. Not much rock or bass driving music. With Cerwin Vega they played the bass driving music to the exclusion of all else. It makes sense to the degree that the type of person who listens to Tupac probably isn't buying a Magnepan and if live opera is your thing Cerwin Vega probably isn't. So if you want to show up Magnepan weaknesses - Tupac or AC/DC will probably do it. I am reviewing the Rogers LS5/9 and Audio Note K/SPe currently - what is fun here is that in HiFi Review Asia the AN K won speaker of the year 2010 and the LS5/9 won it in 2020. So pitting two award winners a decade apart is kind of fun. Both have their strengths and weaknesses. And I also recently spent a good deal of time with the Harbeth 30.2 and B&W 805 which are price competitors for these two as well.
of course, the personal preference disclaimer should be applied. sounds like a very fun job to review so many speakers. as a reviewer, how much effort do you put into optimizing the sound of a particular speaker including the best room position, speaker break in hours, interconnects, speaker cables, amplification and even tube brand if appropriate?
Generally, I prefer system reviews as then I know what the designer has in mind for what audio reproduction should sound like. In lieu of that, matching what the manufacturer typically matches in house for voicing his products. In lieu of that, what his matchups are through his chosen dealers. The manufacturer is supposed to choose his dealer and tell the dealer what amps sources and cables should be an ideal match for his speakers. Some manufacturers may not care (just sell as many as you can) or any amp will do so long as it has enough power. As a web reviewer, I have the advantage of not having time constraints to meet a press issue release date. So I keep components typically 6 weeks but often at least 3 months. 1) Tube amps - I always review with stock tubes because that's the way it comes and it should sound good with what they supply. It is not on the reviewer or the owner to FIX the amplifier. If the owner wants to tube roll that is up to them. Part of this is also because if I review an EL34 based amplifier and I don't use an EL34 amp I won't own expensive tubes for amps I do not own. So if I were to review the Audio Note Meishu a 300B tube amp - I don't have $4,000 WE 300bs lying around to try. If AN wants to me to try those particular tubes they will have to send them along. The onus is on the manufacturer to put the item in the box the way it should be used. If they supply crappy tubes that make it sound dreadful then it sounds dreadful - I can't stock 40 different tube brands to try each of them out and then say - if you buy this Northern Lights tube then and only then will this amplifier sound excellent. If that is so - the amp maker should supply his amplifiers with the Northern Lights Tube and not the $6 JJ. 2) Break-in - minimum of 100 hours - usually I try and get the dealer demo as is the case with the Rogers LS5/9 - it has been operating for over a year. So they sound as they should as soon as I use them. This saves about 10-15 days. 3) The manual usually suggests the optimal placement of their speakers and contacting the owner of the company (or the local dealer who delivers the products) usually helps. I usually get the matching stands with the review speaker if it is a standmount. 4) Cables, if the manufacturer believes cables make a difference, are sometimes provided by the dealer or manufacturer as they are deemed to be the right match for the speaker. If they don't specifically state that they need a specific brand of cable then chances are they think their products will be fine with anything. This applies to power cables - if you want a fancy power cable to be used with your amp then charge $500 more and put the specific power cable you think is great in the box. Most amp makers believe power cables that are supplied are as good as it gets. So that's the way I will review it. 5) Positioning and room size and power requirements. I review smaller room speakers that fit the space fairly. So while I live in Hong Kong - the AN E is about as big as it gets. I have a 13 x 18 listening space with 9-foot ceilings. This is a nice size for standmount speakers and modestly sized floorstanders. I can put speakers up against the walls or free standing. There is only so much that can be done with reviews and with all reviews from anyone it is important to recognize that - a speaker may require a set-up or room treatments that differ from speaker to speaker. Audio Note Speakers generally sound quite good with no room treatments so long as the walls are solid (Concrete or brick). If the room is plaster walls (any soft wall that vibrates (wood) from a corner the result will like boom or sound resonant. The speaker must then be pulled out from the corners. A free standing speaker designer at the outset is designing for an anechoic result - thus trying to eliminate the walls. Freestanding and nearfield is an attempt to have the speakers and the listeners away from the walls so that the listener hears the speakers and not the room. It generally doesn't work even then so they have to spend a lot of money on room treatments and or DSP. Sealed cabinets and speakers without a lot of bass tend to fair better in "weaker" rooms because they don't excite room modes to the same degree as bass strong speakers. So the LS 5/9 is quite fine positioned free-standing and because it is a sealed box also works well where I had the AN K (against the wall). The LS 5/9 has considerably less bass depth than the Audio Note K which also helps it near boundaries and probably why both Rogers speakers are massively popular in Hong Kong. Power - I only review speakers that my amplifiers can drive. The reason I bought the Wyred4Sound amplifiers was to cover speakers that my 8 watt SET amps can't drive or are a stated mismatch. This is why I did not take in the LS5/9 a few years ago - the manual states a min of 30 watts and neither of my amps reached it. Now I have an amp that does so I can look at bringing in speakers that require more power. On another thread I noted that the biggest problem in audio is that there is no matched experience. I hear a B&W 805 and think meh that's pretty bad. But I am hearing it in Vancouver with Classe in a showroom at a dealer. Some other reviewer or forumer hears the same speaker at a dealer in New York with concrete walls with ARC and loves it. The experience is never mirrored. If I drive a Toyota Camry on a good road in BC and another person drives the same car on a good road in New England the experience is pretty much the same. MBL was bottom 2 at a show for me and the same system (same electronics everything) at another show I ranked number 1. Take my Wyred4Sound power amps - my impression of them is through the lens of the Audio Note preamps. The premium tube preamp presentation will largely "control" the overall amplifier sound of the W4S amps. So my take on how good they sound may be very different than someone using a Rotel preamp or a Prima Luna preamp. There are simply too many permutations to be able to try them all.
I think there also comes a point where you can get that exact perfect match. But that only works with a perfect audiophile approved AAA source. Then you are at that point where the music that you is dictated by choosing the perfectly recorded music, rather than listening to your imperfect but chosen music. Realizing that for purposes of a review, you want everything to be perfect. On your own time, you want to listen to what pleases you, despite the recording itself. And when the smoke clears away, some music is going to sound better on one system, where some music is going to sound better on another.
Well the source player matters a fair bit and I feel like my analog set-up is far better than what most people will realistically own. As for recorded music - I think people want a system that won't dictate what they can listen to. So while I do use some audiophile recordings deemed by the "they" to be excellent recordings I like a pretty large cross section of music genres and recordings. I want the system to be able to play music people "like" not just the froo froo Diana Krall and Patricia Barber recordings. I actually kind of get on these artists unfairly largely because that is what dealers always seem to play. Hell even in Hong Kong I went to an audio dealer with cool looking horn open baffle speakers and Nagra gear so a set-up in the $35k+ range and I sat down and what does the dealer play? Diana Krall - FFS! I can't get away from her even in Hong Kong. In another thread on what album would you use to evaluate gear, I just made up a compilation. One album is no good because it usually comes from one recording studio - everything is mastered maybe by one person etc. Some reviewers mainly only listen to classical music and/or jazz - which is fine but Pop and Rock is what sells and what "most" people listen to so it somewhat helps if it is included. It may also be good if some of the music used to evaluate gear were from artists who are still alive and perhaps under the age of 30. A few reasons are that I don't know who the readers are. If I only reference classical that alienates a lot of readers - if I don't put enough classical music in then that too can alienate readers. I can put in "serious" artists but if I include Billie Eilish I know I will get the "that's crap" commentary but you know 5 Grammys! People buy her music and they want to know why they should spend $5,000 on a speaker over their iPod earbuds. And a good system plays pop a lot better than a lesser one. So an example 20 track playlist I would use would be something like this: 1) LP "Halo" (Live Beyonce cover) 2) Ravel "Bolero" 3) Eva Cassidy "Time After Time" 4) Beethoven "Fur Elise" 5) Black Sabbath "War Pigs" 6) Sarah McLachlan "Fumbling Towards Ecstacy" 7) Bee Gees "Stayin' Alive" 8) Jackson Browne "Late for the Sky" 9) Lim Kek-tjiang "The Butterfly Lovers" 10) Luciano Pavarotti "Nessun Dorma" 11) Nancy Sinatra and Lee Hazelwood "Lady Bird" 12) Barber "Adagio for Strings" 13) AC/DC "Shook Me All Night Long" 14) The Pretenders "Never be Together" 15) Lewis Capaldi "Somebody to Love" 16) Pink Martini - Ninna Nanna 17) Billie Eilish "Six Feet Under" (Acoustic) 18) Cage The Elephant "Cold Cold Cold" 19) Aurora "Runaway" (Live Honda Stage or Acoustic at the Nobel Peace Prize) 20) Youn Sun Nah "Momentum Magico" (Live)
