Excellent, thanks. Sounds like you are very fair to the products you review and put a good amount of effort into it while knowing there are limits.
Nice music selection... In defense of Diana Krall. Back in the early 80's, I had acquired a pair of Magnapan's. I realized that I hadn't really been buying music for several years, close to a decade. I wanted to buy some new music from artists who were new to me. But, and this is the big but... While Peaches was in full swing, I really had no idea what was on the inside of a record cover. I was mostly unfamiliar with the current bands and their music. After some careful consideration, I bought somewhere between ten and twenty records to kick-start my collection. One of those happened to be Kate Bush and one happened to be Diana Krall. I was completely unfamiliar with either artist. I thoroughly enjoyed both artists and importantly, the quality afforded to their recordings. Today I still listen to and enjoy them. You have to hand it to Diana Krall because she maintains quality control over her recordings. I like female vocalists and she has excellent vocals, she is also a good piano player. I think that realistic piano reproduction by any audio system is an accomplishment. While many can get the notes, the melody and the cords, it does take a superior system to accurately reproduce both. I look at a piano as kind of like two instruments in one for that exact reason. Maintaining the weight of the cords and balancing it with the clarity required for the melody takes some doing. Beyond that, the greatest challenge is achieving the sheer scale of reproducing the sound that a grand piano is capable of. Now balance that against achieving a natural sounding vocals at the same time... I do see your point about the audio shows and demos using Diana Krall! I do want to add that I have never attended an audio show, nor have I ever had a demo at a dealer with Diana Krall music. So with regard to Diana, I remain a complete agnostic. But I was not so much speaking of the quality of the source equipment, like a turntable, which we will assume is sufficient to accomplish its intended purpose. I was also not making reference to the artist or genera of music, though these are important considerations. I was speaking about the actual sound quality, which in my observations, can differ greatly from specific recording to recording.
Diana is from Nanaimo where I live when I live in Canada. She shops at Fascinating Rythm - a record store I go to and as I was walking to the shop she and her father were walking out and getting into their SUV with a bunch of records. I missed her by minutes. She autographed an LP and Poster for the store owner. My close female concert violinist friend (like almost married close) jammed with Diana a few times. So I don't hate her it's just that I find her overplayed. The albums I tend to like from her are the more original works not covers - so I prefer "Girl in the Other Room" more than stuff like Live in Paris. I also try to point out that just in Canada there are other singers who might (should) get played as they too have excellent recordings - girl at a piano kind of stuff. Chantel Chamberland is one and Sophie Milman another. Both generally exceptionally well-recorded as well. . The little listening list is just an assortment kind of thing. At shows - I cut it down a fair bit because I know what the demonstrators will play - I don't need to bring Dire Straits, the Eagles, Opera, Classical or Jazz to shows because they all bring it. Unfortunately, now showrooms often don't have any CD players and while I bring a USB they often say they can't support it (probably a fear of a virus). And sometimes show operators are simply a lot more organized and you know it can positively bias you. We can all be positively biased to something when the people running a room make the experience better. When I go in and want to play say Jackson Browne at a Piano and a relatively famous song - I kind of expect the showrunner to be able to play the track. Can't play my CD fine then have it on your computer or stream it in. Strike out - and the next 5 song requests - nope. Then they play something they think is close but isn't and you become bothered. Someone like Dave Cope remembers me after several years and when I walk in he puts on a Sarah McLachlan 45 LP from Analogue Productions. He knows I am from Canada - that I like her and that I know the song well. Girl at a Piano - Diana did some songs with her live as well. It's small stuff but it's smart. And he knows that I know that he knows what's going on but service counts for stuff when you're dropping large dollars. Herman from Acapella Audio Arts surprised me - the man looks to be in his late 60s (sorry Herman if you are younger) and with his $70,000 horns I am in there playing Guns and Roses at stupid levels. After I finish he says wait - calls up another GnR track that is harder hitting than what I play and puts the volume up more. A lot of showrunners don't - their systems aren't capable. And that's okay - some systems are tailored for certain things. A Quad owner isn't an idiot - If they are dropping $15,000 on a speaker they know what it can't do but they love what it can do. It doesn't work for me because well - AC/DC and Nightwish. One thing I will add to a prior post is that the source players and amplification can often give components a massive advantage. When I listen to a B&W N805 it is connected up, usually by amps B&W owns like Rotel and Classe - which are okay sounding SS amps but the best sound I have ever heard from any B&W was with an Audio Note CD player and purple Wyatech Labs 211 SET amplifier. So I often think about speakers where they are kind of tough to drive and I say to myself - well what if this speaker had the benefit of that SET amplifier or the quite frankly ridiculously good Audio Note Meishu Tonmeister at 8 watts. Rather than some hulking 200 watts soulless sounding amplifier what if it had the "magic factor" front end. A TT3 frankly annihilates a Rega (any Rega) so what would that do to the overall judgment one has on a speaker? When I review the Rogers LS 5/9 it has perhaps more advantages in my room than what an end-user will get. And, conversely, a reviewer with significantly up-market gear than I own may get much better results.
Your timescale is way out Diana Krall has only been active since 1993 (first album)! Maybe you bought a copy of The Dreaming in 1983 but no Krall. I'm pretty glad I did not have to endure Krall at hi-fi shows in the 80s .
Richard, I've really appreciated these posts. It would be great if you had a dedicated thread here on your reviewing philosophy and current reviews to help track there. Just a thought...
Sophie Milman and Sarah McLachlan, I listen to both of them. Sara did an acoustic duo album with Cyndi Lauper several years back, I have that one. Possibly that is the reason he does have $70k horns...
Are the p3esr strictly for nearfield usage? how would they sound in a 3x4m room (15-20cm to the back wall)? I‘ve read on a local dealers homepage that with the 30.2 xd the distance to the backwall can be minimal - is this correct? they seem quite big to me
The P3ESR is not strictly for nearfield. But, nobody knows how they would sound in your room. If you don’t know, how could any of us know since we haven’t been in your listening room. In general though, as long as the listening position is not more than 2 metres from the front of the P3ESR speakers, music should sound very good. Farther away than that the mid-bass and bass begin to weaken rapidly. The 30/30.1/30.2 speakers are large standmount speakers. Because they are front-ported, they can be placed close to the wall behind them in some rooms (but not all). I suggest being more concerned about keeping them at least 0.5 metre from side walls.
My room is closer to 4x5m, and I have the first gen M30. For my room, the bass was too woozy close to the wall. I can't recall what Harbeth advises, but I needed to be close to 1 meter to keep the bass in syn with the image. Every room will differ, as has been pointed out. If you need to be closer to the wall, I would think the P3esr is the way to go -- but see what Harbeth recommends on that.
harbeth manual suggests at least .75 meter from the wall behind them to the rear baffle. in practice they sound better with more distance e.g. 1 meter or so for sound stage depth. you can survive with less but bass response may develop some peaks. the p3s and all harbeths sound best in a nearfield arrangement e.g. an equal length triangle. the triangle can grow according to your room and seating.
I agree with the 1 M distance. But,correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't "near-field" just mean relatively close to the speakers, like in a studio monitor situation? Room reflections are less an an issue then. I don't think a the EQL triangle can grow beyond a few feet and still be "near-field."
For me "nearfield " is relative to room and speaker size....my ears are 9ft from my SHL5+ and i consider that nearfield.....i could sit much further away if it worked for me.
as big as your room allows including avoiding reflections- it is a nearfield relationship. try for two feet from side walls. far field is typically a longer height of the triangle relative to the base.
another consideration is distance to the wall behind you . the sides of the triangle should shrink if you are sitting right against a wall. two feet minimum.
I find that I do not need to go with an equal triangle when doing nearfield. The amount of toe-in does matter. I did nearfield for my P3ESR. Speakers were 5’ apart and I sat around 4’ away. Adjusted toe in till it suited me. And with nearfield, there’s less worry about how close the speakers are to the walls.
The LS-3/5a is a sealed box design and as typical of such speakers they are, as I have found reviewing them, to be quite fine near rear walls. Perhaps a reason they are so popular in Hong Kong with small listening spaces. Ideal near a wall probably not but they sound quite good. Part of the appeal of speakers that can be positioned in a variety of locations and still sound good. As you move places over the years it is nice to have speakers that will sound great in all your various rooms - if you have to stick them in a corner or near walls or you have to pull them out - it's nice not to have to sell the speakers due to a move. Currently reviewing the Rogers LS 5/9 (and I have tried them in a few locations and these sound quite good near the real wall (solid concrete) and this again is a huge advantage where HK apartments are generally small and space is tight. Having them 4 feet from a wall would be a pain in the ass.
While I haven't heard the previous non-xd versions of the monitor 30, I liked the 30.2 XD enough to buy my review sample. Absolutely floored with how these sound with every type of music. Harbeth Audio M30.2 XD Loudspeaker — Audiophilia
Forgive me for asking, but what discount, if any, did you receive on the review sample? To be clear, I am not questioning your integrity or the validity of your opinion (I love my Harbeth 30s), but I see the "I liked it enough to buy the review sample" in many reviews (not just of Harbeths), and it literally begs the question of a discount, if any.
I'm guessing that most likely the set was rotated around to other reviewers. So they are 'used' speakers. He should have gotten a discount. Plus he saved them return shipping costs. I do not see the 'I bought the review sample' comment too often.
The industry standard is generally close to wholesale for all products when associated with a respected publication. Virtually all my equipment was purchased this way (or 2nd hand). Usually most review samples are previously used, the Harbeths were an exception just because they had been out of stock for a while at the distributor. I reviewed/am reviewing three separate bookshelf speakers this fall/winter. Any of them I have/had the opportunity to purchase this way. That's just how it goes. Often reviewers will reach out to companies they haven't reviewed, and still request such a discount (most usually oblige, they like seeing their gear come up in reviews). There are other brands at a similar price I could have purchased, but I liked the harbeth the best. Into the review system they go. I will note, it is our policy not to sell items we receive on accommodation for at least 2+ years, this prevents the perception or temptation of flipping gear. I know some may find the accommodation pricing reviewers get unfair, but keep in mind, most writers receive next to nothing for their contributions unless they happen to write for stereophile or absolute sound. This is really just a labor of love for most.
I'll also point out that last month I reviewed a bookshelf speaker at a similar price point from another company that is also an advertiser at our magazine. You'll notice I did not purchase/keep that model, nor did I award it a star award. We really do try to keep it as honest as possible. It also looks better for manufacturers if we are not universally praising every piece of gear, it makes our real praise more impactful imo.
