Question for P3 folks who moved up to a bigger Harbeth speaker--which model did you buy, and which in your opinion sounds the most like the P3 but bigger?
The M30 series is like a bigger version of the P3ESR. C7ES3 and SHL5+ don't have that P3ESR sort of sound. They are slightly different but still lovely.
Thanks. How are they different? I love the P3 warmth/mid-range, so I don't want to give that up. I just want more if it.
Me personally, in my room and system, the C7ESR has a, for want of a better word, looser bass. It's not bad sounding, just different. I like it for swing jazz, bebop and rock. As for the SHL5+ it casts a wider sound stage. You get more 'air'. More sense of scale. The M30 does retain the P3ESR's 'vocal centric' sound. So far owned the P3ESR, C7ES3 and SHL5+, no XDs . Kept the P3ESR for daily listening. Replaced the SHL5+ with the Graham Audio LS 8/1.
Well really, none of them sound that much like the P3 line, which is a brilliant evolution of the LS3/5A line. What all well-made LS3/5 progeny do with choral and small ensemble work is sui generis, nothing quite like it antwhere. But if I had to pick one Harbeth, I'd say the M30s due to the warm midrange, but even they sound more like the 40s than to the P3s.
I fear that the P3ESRXD is best of it's kind of sounding, and no other "bigger" Harbeth can compete. As recent P3 lover, I wanted to hear other Harbeth big brothers, knowing that in some way I'd be in deception. Hesitating between M30 and C7 XD in each case, I complete the range with C7 and very happy having done this. The big brother pair has more bass but lack a bit the tightness in medium of P3 . My conclusion is each Harbeth can not replace the other even if they have the same "family sounding". Many try to complete the P3 with subwoofer, I would not do that because my listening is direct and subwoofer would kill the music's tightness. Happily, now I know that my choice of P3 can be bettered but in real life, the P3 is the "best" of it's kind for my room-music.
It's tough to find and tune a sub woofer to integrate without disturbing a speakers pleasantries but not impossible.
Agreed. I use the Yamaha HS8s with my P3s, and it's a really nice combo--mostly, I think, because it's a tight and fast sub that articulates cleanly like the P3s themselves. I tried one of the bigger Klipsch subs, and that was a terrible match (boomy, uncontrolled).
FWIW I moved to the 30.1 from the P3, and felt that it was a very natural step up, mainly in terms of bass.
Thanks. Did it impact your analog versus digital listening, by any chance? I'm finding that I listen to analog more with the Model 5s than the P3s. Not quite sure why, and I wonder whether a bigger Harbeth might make me listen to vinyl a bit more than I do with the P3s.
You might consider the Stirling Broadcast SB-88. It is a great value and designed by Derek Hughes who designed the current Graham models. IMO it sounds closer to the P3 than does the M30. It’s a bit smaller than the C7ES3 and larger than the M30 but has much higher power handling than either. Just an all around better speaker and for less money.
Thanks for the rec. I've listened to some samples on YT and really liked that speaker. Will do some more research.
Been a while since I heard the SB-88, and it's a fine speaker, but my recollection is that it plays a lot more like the C7 than the M30. I don't think power handling capacity should be a major concern with any of these speakers. "Less money?" Yes. "All around better?" De gustibus ....
Yes, is is all around better. The midrange doesn’t have that glassy overtone that the radial driver produces, it can handle way more power, is more dynamic and the tweeter is in an entirely different league. The Stirlings employ higher quality crossover parts and birch-ply cabinets. Harbeths have iron-core inductors and MDF cabs. I know a fellow forum member who owned the 30s and agrees the Stirling is better. The power handling isn’t in the same league whatsoever. The Stirling is rated to 107db max output at 2m. Try that with the Harbeths and I all but guarantee you’ll be replacing drivers. The 8” radial driver is not a high power handling driver. In the smaller Harbeths you can really hear it struggle with dynamic music at high volumes. The Stirling can rock out if asked to, the C7 is sort of a joke with rock music. That’s my real world experience with these brands. Of course it’s an unpopular opinion because Harbeths are the web forum darlings. There are multiple brands IME that do nearly everything better for similar or less money. Unfortunately for many audiophiles, Harbeth has won the web marketing wars. The consequence is peeps are willing to throw down their hard earned cash without thinking twice about other options. I see guys on the forums who exclusively listen to EDM and hard rock and are determined to buy Harbeth, which is nearly the worst option out there for those genres. I will concede that Harbeth are probably the most talented marketers in the industry.
I haven't heard them in person, but based on the audio samples I found online the Stirling seem notably brighter overall. Was that your real-life experience with them?
I would say that the root of Harbeth's success in the USA has been the highly positive reviews it gets from Stereophile and Absolute Sound on just about every speaker it makes. That impressive record deservedly puts them on many people's "must try" list. Presumably, a lot of them like what they hear, or they wouldn't buy them.
I agree. I do think the Harbeth are a bit overpriced, but they are wonderful speakers. I bought mine only after a real-life demo, and I just didn't want to stop listening, which is the gold standard, IMHO. And that experience has continued since I made the purchase. I can't say that about any other speaker I own, TBH. There is lots I like about a lot of them, but only the Harbeth feel like home, and that impression is based on empirical data/hours and hours of listening, not marketing hype. And, TBH, I rarely see any advertisements for Harbeth. (Compare that to Klipsch, for example--I see ads for their speakers everywhere.)
Harbeth M30 are rated 106 dB at 1 m. 1 speaker The Stirlings 107 at 2 meters x 2 speakers Continuous No one listens over 90 dB continuous. Iron is the best material for an inductor core. MDF imo is better than bitch plywood, density and dampening. But there are 2 schools of thought. https://downloads.bbc.co.uk/rd/pubs/reports/1977-03.pdf
In the Harbeth lineup, which I like, my favorite is the M30 line. But, I would not say that it sounds like a louder or beefier P3, the M30 is a more upper midrange prominent speaker. You might want to look at something like the ProAc D2 as a closer replacement. My local dealer has a lot of people coming in interested in the Harbeth line. By far, it is the line that draws in most potential new customers. But, if the person listens to other offerings in the store, those potential buyers that are willing to listen to other brands often end up buying Audio Note speakers instead. It is far rarer that someone coming in to hear Audio Note speakers ends up going with Harbeth. To be clear, this store sells only tube-based amplification, so this might favor one brand over the other, but, I think Harbeth also sounds great with tube electronics.
Yea, and that story also underscores the fact that there are simply a lot of good options out there, and it's really a bit of a red herring to insist one is much better than the other when you're looking at speakers at this level of quality, since so much of it is a function of synergy and subjectivity.
