Has anyone here ever owned--or at least heard--the Smaller Advent?

Because I now own a pair.

But I have never heard them personally, so was wondering about their sonic personality. Layneaudio.com wants $55 to refoam both woofers--are these speakers worth doing that? And does anyone know their original selling price?

the following is only if you're bored!

I found them at a church resale shop this past Wednesday (my very first stop on my mission to find a cool classic speaker to fix up--wow) and they wanted only $10 for the pair. I knew before even removing the grille what condition the woofer's surround would be in. And yes, it was totally dried-up & in complete tatters. But the cones look O.K. & both tweeters look fine. And the cabinets & groovy tan burlap-ish grilles are in very nice shape.

Here's a site with a photo of them (bottom right).

But get this. I always thought this model had an 8" woofer and that as a last resort (if I couldn't repair the originals) I could always screw in a decent generic replacement from PartsExpress or something. But as I kept looking at the woofer, I kept thinking it sure looked odd for some reason. Maybe it was because the enclosure was rather small? Well, this speaker's designer, Henry Kloss, again did something out of the ordinary to produce good sound from odd materials. According to layneaudio.com this Advent uses a nine inch woofer. Who these days makes 9" woofers?? Jeez Henry, why did you have to go and do that? Didn't you think ahead thirty years to what could happen?

Anyway, I think similar to the original Large Advent, this woofer uses an oversized frame to allow lots of excursion but the cone itself actually is 8". And it has a huge & lumpy felt(?) dust cap that's about 5" in diameter. On a forum somewhere I read yesterday, someone called this a "mass-loading" device. This makes sense because this speaker is supposedly capable of very large amounts of bass for its size, and a heavy cone can resonate at lower frequencies.

Then, as I checked out the rear terminal panel, I read something that caused me some dismay: this speaker has a 4 ohm rating. Uh oh. I'm pretty sure this is to help the driving amp produce as much power as possible because I have heard for years how extremely inefficient these speakers were supposed to be, a neccessary trade-off for their bass output/size relationship. But all I have for these speakers is an old Pioneer SX-6 rated down to only 6 ohms (it's officially rated at 45 watts per channel @8ohms with .01%THD, 20Hz-20kHz).

And that tweeter! What a funky hodgepodge of plates, thick black glue, and oddball shapes. But overall it looks purposeful and I've read few complaints about it. What's interesting is that the tweeter's diaphragm itself, a sort of dome/donut paper affair, is now showing up on various modern speakers I've seen lately. The Advent 6003 (later versions were called the Maestro) had a midrange that used this same design but it was made of grey polypropylene & is about 5 1/2" across. My old brochure for this speaker says it combines the dispersion of a dome midrange with the low frequency output of a cone type driver. I only heard this speaker once--it was Advent's first three-way design--back in 1984 at a shop called CMC Stereo in Houston so I never really got to closely check for these qualities. This is another model I wouldn't mind owning.

Though the tag said they tested "O.K.", I haven't tried to listen to them yet for fear of damaging the woofer's voice coil since the cones are sagging. But I'm getting impatient so I might place the speakers face up and play them that way because I really want to hear (some) of what this 30 year old speaker can do.

 

Good deal! Should be a fun project.

Yes, lay it on it's back and play it. That should not stress the V.C., the spider should keep it centered in the gap. I have experience re-surrounding woofers if you need advise. I have some left over 8 inch edges if they will fit? Let me know, RE

 

Hi Taurus,

Oddly enough, I own a pair of Small Advents and have them hooked up to a Pioneer SX-6. I don't play them very loud but they sound just fine. I have it set up in an extra bedroom. The Pioneer SX-6 is a pretty decent sounding receiver based on a Nelson Pass design. I used it as my first remote control stereo system.

 

Rolf: thanks for the offer but Layneaudio says they require custom-made surrounds. And I usually do like repairing things myself but this seems too......tricky......especially considering that I can't just waltz down to the corner electronics shop & buy a new surround if I make a mistake.

dsclar: "....they sound just fine"

I realize after 30 years the materials have aged & probably not in a positive manner, so I'm fully prepared to be underwhelmed if I repair mine, so if you want go ahead and let loose with any opinions you have on their sound quality (warm, detailed, etc).

Also: IIRC, on Jensen's page I recently saw a note that Advent's name is now owned by RCA/Thomson Electronics. What exactly does a company do with just a name?

 

Hi Taurus,

Well, my Advent's have 7" basket's with 6" woofers. So now that I look at the back, I can see that these are Advent 3's, which are apparently smaller than the Small Advents.

But these speakers sound very natural and flat. I primarily use them for FM and in the background, but I just hooked up a cd player and they sound a bit dull. I bumped up the treble to about 2 o'clock on the SX-6 and they sound much better. The bass is a tad thin for the most part, but as is typical for these types of speakers, it is really there when there is deep bass on the record.

If I drive these speakers hard, and bump the bass a tad, I can get the woofers to bottom out, which of course sounds horrible. The point is that there is plenty of power coming out of the SX-6 for these Advent 3's.

These speakers are marked as 8 ohm, so if your's are 4 ohm I guess you'll just have to try them and see how they work with your amp.

Sorry for the confusion. IIRC, these were once called Baby Advents.

I thought you were going to ask me how I made the SX-6 remote controllable.

 

A repair kit, with shipping, will run you $25 anyway...so if it's worth another $30 to have someone do the work, go for it. Parts Express does sell a kit for these woofers, BTW...in fact, I have to get a set myself since I bought a spare pair of woofers for my Small Advents. You just have to let them know you want the foams for the Small Advent woofers, which are between the generic 8"/10" woofer foams.

Whatever you do, don't bother hooking them up with the surrounds shot. They will sound nothing like properly functioning speakers anyway. (The voice coils tend to be a bit fragile as well.) Once they're repaired, you'll notice that these little speakers are capable of a surprising amount of bass.

The only variable: tweeters. Mine were barely functioning in my set, so I temporarily dropped in some spare tweeters I had here (Philips), but have a pair of Audax soft domes that will eventually end up in there when I get back into working on them. IMHO the bass is solid enough that they're worth fixing up.

 

Rotten surrounds = air leakage = yucky bass response - don't hook them up...

 

Thanks everyone for your advice.

Dsclar,

No big deal about the mixup. But get this: I also used to own a pair of Baby Advents. The first generation series, which I got for Christmas back in 1984. The one with wooden endcaps, black cabinet & chocolate brown grill. With the 6.5" sealed woofer and a 1 3/4" cone tweeter with ferrofluid cooling. I had to replace the woofer (foam rotted) in 1997. Then in 1998 I bought my Boston Acoustics CR9s and I gave the Babys to a good friend for his new house for his bedroom system. And I sure miss them--oh well. Stereo Review measured their response and they had usable bass down to almost 45Hz(!) but it took some power to get them to do this--their SPL rating was a loooow 86dB @1watt/1meter, so no surprise there.

They also were the first speaker I knew of that had what's called a "midbass hump". IIRC, SR found it centered around 100Hz and it helped give the little speaker some excitement when playing rock & pop music.....and it did! And I got written up several times in college for it too.

And about that remote for the SX-6.............. Though I still like this receiver, that electronic button-activated volume control could drive me nuts since it took awhile to go up and down. But it sure seemed cool back then, along with its digital readout.

Rudy (and Indy Mike): yea, I think I'll pass on powering them up. But I'm going to disconnect the woofer & at least see if the tweeters are working decently. And I think I'll probably just let Layne Audio fix them--I don't want to mess these guys up. And thanks for the tip about the surrounds at PE.

BTW: I'm still hoping Cambridge SoundWorks--the last company Henry Kloss worked for--will sell a two-way/10" sealed woofer design based on the Large Advent. Because from what I've read on several forums, there are still people besides me who still enjoy the sound of such "huge" speakers rather than the more fashionable sat/sub systems, which never seem to sound quite right to me.

 

With Henry Kloss gone, I would probably not count on that happening. His last involvement before his death was with Tivoli Audio (who makes those cool FM table radios modeled after the old KLH radios). Even so, I never cared at all for the sound of any of Cambridge's speakers (especially the sub/sat systems)...had high hopes for their Model 6 (which was a repro, supposedly of the KLH Model 6), but it just sounded like yet another cheap boxy speaker. I've got one of their Center Channel Plus speakers, in fact, purchased as a demo--even the cheaper Boston Acoustics center I own (a 424V) smokes it--the CCP was always muffled and constricted sounding. Poor design IMHO. The Center Channel Plus hits eBay in a few weeks, BTW...

The speakers I own now (two pair) are reminiscent of the Large Advents: 10" woofer, dome tweeter, vented...nicely controlled bottom end that's a bit cleaner than others I've heard. I agree--there probably still is a market for this kind of speaker. Today's trends run toward sub/sat systems or speakers in some sort of "tower" configuration (which I understand from a design standpoint, but don't like the looks of). Heck, I know a few people who used to own two pair of Large Advents and stacked 'em two per side--maybe not sonically the most perfect arrangement, but IMHO it had this "big" sound that could really fill up a room or a basement.

I am actually reworking my Small Advents--once I do the tweeter replacement (my "fried egg" tweeters are in a box somewhere--they were barely functional when I got this pair), I'm hoping to refinish the cabinetry, clean up the grille cloth (or replace it, keeping the original logos of course), and possibly using it in a "retro" system in the future. (Tube amp, maybe...like a pair of Dynaco Mk IIIs.) I got two spare woofers for $10, and all they need are the new surrounds. Mine were refoamed a year or two before I bought them, so they're still in great shape. That way if I pop one of the woofers on accident, I'll have spares on hand. Not sure if I'll rebuild the crossovers or not--definitely would stay as close to original capacitors as possible (same "type" in other words). No telling how much these may have drifted in 30 years.

 

Agreed about the button activated volume control driving you nuts. But I hooked some wires up to various switch points inside the unit and attached them to the Technics Remote Control kit for the 1500RS Reel to Reel recorders. It had a remote that actually activated contact closures. So it was not too tough to interface the two units. I could remotely change volume, tune the radio, and change sources. Somebody at the time told me it was impossible to make the SX-6 remoteable, so I had to do it. I hate when somebody tells me that what I want to do can't be done.

 

I owned a pair of Maestro's back in 1995. Great speakers. My son blew one of the woofers while I was at work. Took it to an authorized Advent repair shop. If I'm not mistaken, he replaced it with an Altec Lansing. My ex took them (along with all of my electronics) and gave them away during our divorce...such a brat.

 

Rudy: Where I was working back in the mid 90s we sold some CSW speakers, including the Model Sixes. Except for one entry-level sub/sat system all of them had a "soft" sonic character to them, so not so exciting with pop/rock music. I was looking forward to the Sixes when I saw them on the in-transit list on the inventory computer but when we set them up, well, I wasn't so excited anymore. I was sure the lack of deep bass was due to the large size of our demo room but those recessed highs bothered me. And this had nothing to do with their use of a cone tweeter because I've heard many cones sound just as clear & energetic as a dome type (my Baby Advent's tweeter used a cone; though their dispersion angle was a little narrow). I have always thought that small enclosure was preventing the woofers from really exploring their potential.

FYI: their 12" sealed subwoofer w/140 watt amp we sold had NO problems with bass output--very deep, rich (i.e. totally non-boomy) and quite powerful. Stereo Review said it was the first sub they tested with usable output down to a true 20Hz. I believe it.

Anyway, I have not heard any other CSWs since then. I like CSW's no-nonsense attitude toward audio & was always hoping the newer models like the Newtons had a little more life to them. Hmm. I noticed the bookshelf/3-way Newtons with 8" woofers are now ported instead of sealed--maybe they are reacting to market pressures?

BTW: I also own one of Tivoli's table radios. Sounds very good!

What brand would these be?

Axlsred: You're one of the very few people that seem to own any of the 3-way Advents (not a complaint, just an observation). I always figured for really good performance in the midrange at high sound levels, a speaker with a 10" or larger woofer will have to use a separate midrange driver. Though I don't think this is true for horn-equipped speakers since horns can be crossed over much lower than a conventional direct-radiating tweeter.

 

FS: Left over spare woofer foam surrounds, take 'em off my hands, please...

Hi! I have some spare generic foam surrounds, 8", 10", 12" 15". left over from a spree of repair'in stuff. Anyone need any? They will fit "standard" speaker sizes, not "special" sizes. I'll send 'em out for $9 per pair on the 8" and 10" ers. or $10 per pair of 12" ers. or $12 per pair of 15" ers. Plus US postage cost. No frills, just the "donuts"... no glue, no swabs, no instruction video. Obtain your own contact cement, DAP is good. Call or write me for help if needed.

 

Testing damaged speakers

Amendment: Play them at a low level, this is just for temporary testing purposes, to see if there is any obvious problem. Do the woofers move? If there is a horrible scraping noise, discontinue at once! Do the tweeters sound like normal tweeters? No, you won't have the low bass as when the surrounds are installed, but you will know if you should proceed with investing in efforts and $$$ to repair. If the woofer fails to move, It is likely blown, and, unless it is a very expensive type, will cost too much to completely re-cone. Re-surrounding is inexpensive and easy. As for the tweeters, repair is seldom practical. Replacement of tweeters is the usual course. If both tweeters and woofers are non-functional, repair is usually not economical. This covers the 80% of cases, not unusual, rare situations. Happy repairing! RE

 

Mine were made by Grafyx--a small company in Chicago from about the late 70s to the mid 80s. They only had three models--the largest, the SP10, is what I bought, first pair around 1979, the other in 1982. These got great reviews in some of the audiophile press, and IMHO, while they were priced just $20/pair more than the Polk 7's, they easily kept up with the Polk 10s and IMHO had deeper bass. (Detroit lurkers--these were bought at Absolute Sound.)

If I went with a sub today, it'd probably be something from Hsu Research--I remember some of their earlier cylindrical models went down to 16-18Hz, which was the lowest fundamental of a pipe organ. (The low C on a pipe organ is 16Hz.) That's low enough to get a person nauseous!

 

There's something kind of fascinating to me about trying to get good sound from such a simple & (relatively) inexpensive system that consists of only one large woofer and one tweeter. I know a separate midrange would help but that's too easy!

Thanks for your help everyone.

 

I guess I'm late to this thread but: I've owned Advents small and large. Large Advents better than small, but both lacking definition just about everywhere. Paradoxically, definition improved when 2 large Advents were stacked, one on top of the other. I remember many years ago, the Absolute Sound recommended stacked large Advents.

 

Robin,

I'm not trying to be argumentative as I have read similar comments many times but just really want to know: why do you (or anybody else reading this) think Advent's speakers sold in such large quantities?

* good marketing?

* they looked nice in people's lving rooms?

* attractive price?

or

* (to use a really scientific term ) they simply "rocked" really well in an overall manner despite their individual technical drawbacks? I.e. synergy, or something like that?

 

I'd say mostly (and remember that I've owned Advent speakers more than once) good marketing, very good ad work. Very good price for what you got. The Big Advents had reach into the bass. It's true that the Large Advent has good octave to octave balance. Eventually they drove me nuts because of lack of focus. Though my Infinity 2500's lack deep bass, they simply are more defined and detailed than any of the Advents. More efficient too.
Remember: Stacked Large Advents really are overachievers. They have very solid bass (for the price), image well and seem to define images very well.
You want '70's speakers that rock try JBL, Klipsch and those monster Sansui bookshelf speakers. They were far more efficient and sonically designed with Rock in mind.

 

Thanks Robin. I've read some of their ads on vintage sites & they seem pretty straight forward about their products. In fact my brochure for the Advent 6003 (Advent's first three-way model) gives detailed advice on how to compare speakers & tells the reader to pick the one that they truly like the most but of course, hope they will choose the Advent. Wow.

I don't we will see that kind of advertising again any time soon!

 

Neither do I. What I find interesting is the utter lack of ads/hype for Infinity's low end speakers in the 70's. The 2500's stuck in my memory for something like 23 years and ended up sounding exactly as I remembered. Taking off the covers I can see why they sounded so much different (better) than other mass market bookshelf speakers of the time. The mid/low driver is lightweight with a carefully crafted dustcap/dome. The highs come from a simple 1 inch soft dome tweeter. Kloss and company were aiming for BASS. These Infinitys had a design that did not go as deep into the bass as most big bookshelf speakers. But they don't fake the bass and are unusually dynamic. Unlike AR/KLH/Advent, the Infinity is a ported design. The bass is only enough to encompass the bottom note of an electric bass, but it will reproduce that sound in a very clean fashion, without any hangover. The 2500's would be a perfect match for subwoofers---something Infinity had heads up on with their famous servo-static designs...