Well, I knew the engineer who designed the space shuttle fuel tank gaskets. Believe me when I say that NASA does rigorous testing. One still failed. The difference here are the consequences... -Bill
Every manufacturer makes a screwup from time to time... I remember working as an intern at a company that made composite wind turbine blades... a batch of resin for the composite material they bought was bad, resulting in 10s of weak and unusable 40 meter big wind turbine blades. Whoops.
I'm sure NASA's QA/QC procedures were thoroughly reviewed after Challenger. I worked for many years for a mechanical contractor who implemented ISO 9000 procedures after some high profile failures (flooded high-rise condo buildings-not cheap to fix) which were impacting the company's reputation and bottom line. Every operation was defined and assigned a procedure, including checking and rejecting sub-standard materials from suppliers. I would hope that Rega has some sort of procedure in place to guard against sub-standard materials finding their way into products. I own a P2, which I've been very pleased with. If I bought a P6 and the plinth wasn't pretty much dead nuts, I'd be p!ssed. Hopefully this is an isolated problem, although googling "Rega P6 plinth sag" shows this may not be the case.
I'm not sure where you are getting your information about this model. But it's verging on being regurgitated as misinformation in your last few posts. Do you have a P6? To say the motor, sub-platter, platter, and tone arm are are independent of the plinth is ridiculous. There is a 'brace' - a flat piece of steel on top and bottom, that sandwiches the plinth. Mine is also sagging a bit in the back. If the whole plinth sags, the 'brace' which you seem to think is independent, also sags or changes. This is unacceptable. Do you not believe a platter should be level? The fact is this is not a turntable without a plinth, like other Rega models you describe. It has a plinth and, it's integral to the design and operation.
The sag on mine is minimal at this point but it's still very jarring to see on a $2,000 turntable. If it's noticeable on the edge, obviously it's happening in the centre. It would pretty well defy physics if only the edge was sagging.
Yeah, for $2,000 I will choose a turntable that hasn’t had reports of sagging plinths. Everything about the P6 appeals to me ... except for this. If one person reported it, that would be one thing. But more than one person? It’s just not worth it. I hope you’re getting a fix for yours!
possibly one of the worst F ups in modern engineering! the seal joint that failed was called a radial o-ring seal. basically a big tube inserted into a slightly larger cylinder that squeezes a rubber o-ring to maintain a pressurized seal between the tube and the cylinder. they work very well on a small scale and tightly controlled surface tolerances and parts that expand and contract at the same rate during temperature extremes. to try to seal flammable liquid oxygen (-340 degrees F !) with a radial o-ring around the 12 foot diameter of the shuttle booster rocket was a major screw up and showed lack of understanding of cryogenic sealing application. anyone with experience would not have attempted to use that kind of sealing system. the parts of the rocket were too large to keep their size and shape with enough precision to keep the seal in tact. it can work during testing but is not robust enough when parts start to vary in size and shape. a face to face seal would have been much more robust against leaks. unfortunately a lesson learned too late in the game. now back to our regular programming !
I am a dealer for Rega products and have first hand experience as well as conversations with Rega employees about design and construction. I am also a repair technician and service decks and other other electronics such as amplifiers from any brand. I have seen many of these, none with plinth irregularities. The braces should keep the platter and tonearm perpendicular. The outer edges of the plinth are only laminated with the plinth skin, which is thinner and has a wider span. Those factors give the front edge a much higher bend modulus than the reinforced beam section. Basically that means that the plinth will warp around the beam if stressed to deformation, before the beam will deform. That's the mechanics of it. The most cost effective fix for them if this proves to be a concern for them will be to move the feet of the table closer to the center of mass. That will strengthen the platform without changing materials. if that doesn't prove satisfactory, then a bit more dense foam should. Overall it's sound engineering, but we can say that it may have some unforeseen environmental vulnerabilities. We can't tell without stress testing some units and the samples of suspect examples are too small to draw any conclusions from at this point. -Bill
Yeah, the example goes to show that testing can be challenging and we test for what we expect to occur. It's the ****e that we don't expect that slips through the cracks. Many companies design nice products and then ship them in inadequate boxes. I have seen that many times as a dealer for all types of electronics. You can't just assume the product is weak, as you haven't seen how big that tire was that landed on top of the box! -Bill
In the reply from my dealer there was no air of surprise or disbelief when I described the issue. His only response was to request that I send him photos. He didn't argue with me or attempt to minimize the problem. He's well aware of the issue whether I'm the first or the 50th of his customers to complain. I don't quite understand your belief in magical qualities of the brace. The brace is suspended by the plinth. If the plinth moves, the brace moves and the platter and tonearm move. Proposing a solution of moving the feet in toward the centre is an admission that there is a defect in the product. It won't strengthen the platform, it will reduce tensile stress but increase the compression stress. How much further in do you think the 3 feet can be relocated without affecting the stability but removing the tensile stress on the plinth?
Well, if you are seeing sag, it's good that you discussed it with your dealer. He should contact Rega and see what they think. I was going to send you some contact info but I see that you are already going through the right channels. I am just suggesting a fix for changing how much stress is placed on the outer edge of the plinth should it prove to be a concern for them. The feet are not so far apart, so just an inch each could make a huge difference in how the weight is distributed concentrically. It could be shipping or heat related and not really require any change if only a handful of units are effected by it. All of the ones that I have seen sit nicely on the shelf and play beautifully. They will sort it out if it has deeper roots. -Bill
I don't doubt that most of them are perfect. I hope Rega comes up with a solution. If they don't but I get mine replaced or repaired, I could be dealing with the same thing in a couple years. It's not just about whether or not they correct the problem, it's also about how they deal with the problem. So, does Rega and it's dealers openly admit there is a problem?
If you are expecting a massive recall without the statistical numbers to back that up, you are not being realistic. Anyone with the P6 with this issue should get it worked out with their dealer. I would try, in order.... 1. Ask for a refund. Period. end of story 2. Ask for either a trade down to the P3 with Neo and partial refund OR trade up to the P8 for cost. 3. Ask for a trade in for a different brand. Still under warranty products with structural integrity issues should be taken care of. However, if perfectly flat P6 start warping, that is another bigger can of worms. I don't think we have answers for that-if they will warp later. If they do, then Rega would have to offer to replace all P6 plinths. I would hope the P3 plinth could work well as a substitute. It would be expensive but better than the alternative of alienating a lot of possible future Rega buyers.
My dealer sent me a copy of Rega's official position on the sagging. They say it happens in production and a 'deflection' of 1.6mm is acceptable and will not affect play due to the double brace technology. They are saying it's cosmetic only. I had a closer look at mine and it actually sags in the middle too. I have no faith in Rega's response here. Even if it was cosmetic, which I doubt, they should still go good for it. That picture on the first page here is pretty nasty. I assumed I had a two year warranty but I'm also hearing that it's three years. I have zero paperwork to indicate either. Would Canada be the same as the US?
That's 1/16 of an inch. Not much but noticeable. The kicker is that the manufacturer says it is acceptable to have a slightly warped plinth on a $1600 record player, which is supposed to be a precision device. My daughter has a $160.00 Audio Technica turntable and the plinth is as flat as a sheet of glass. They should be able to date your table with the serial number to tell how much warranty you have left. If it were me I would get a replacement plinth and sell it.
Rega acknowledges it and states it is normal. Top most to my mind is whether the tonearm azimuth remains constant across the platter with a close visual inspection. If it does, the next on my mind would be if I can live with a sagging plinth. Based on the example posted above I'd say no....unless I was in love with the sound and intended to keep it despite the flaw. It's a personal decision. Nothing is perfect.
Yikes. Maybe I will just hang on to my trusty RP3 rather than upgrade to the P6 as I was planning to do....
Wow, that response from Rega is unacceptable. Will never even consider any of their products after this.
TBH I'd like to hear this from the horses mouth only. Not sure if Rega are reading this forum but I have seen Manager P. Darwin from Rega replying on Pink Fish, maybe that's a possible direct line for confirmation ?