Have Star Trek films run their course?

Discussion in 'Visual Arts' started by -=Rudy=-, Mar 13, 2003.

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  1. -=Rudy=-

    -=Rudy=- ♪♫♪♫♫♪♪♫♪♪ Staff Thread Starter

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    Well thank you for clearing that up! For the past couple of months, I've seen your name here and in the back of my mind, I know I'd seen that name somewhere before! :) I'm one of the few persons I know (outside of my small circle of movie-enjoying friends, and this forum and others) who actually reads those credits.

    Interesting notes on the lighting!
     
  2. Andrew

    Andrew Chairman of the Bored

    First time seeing "ST:FC" in a theater I thought "THAT is how they should be making these movies!"
     
  3. Scott Wheeler

    Scott Wheeler Forum Resident

    Location:
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    Gardo

    We agree on Alice Krige. She is an amazing actress. I think if she were not completely devoid of an ego she would have been one of the biggest stars of our time. Her performance and presence in The Haunting was one for the ages. Not only is she one of my favorite actresses she is one of my favorite human beings.

    Now back to the topic before it becomes obvious that I am guilty of thread crapping. I think the franchise is terminal. Nemesis was the worst box office performer in the history of the franchise. I doubt we will see any more Trek movies in the near or not so near future. Kangaroo Jack grossed more money. The rumor on Enterprise is that it will be canceled at the end of this season or the end of next season only to get the minimum three years needed for syndication. I think after that it's over.
     
  4. -=Rudy=-

    -=Rudy=- ♪♫♪♫♫♪♪♫♪♪ Staff Thread Starter

    Location:
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    I believe that. IMHO, the trailers for "Nemesis" did not reach out and say to me, "This is a Star Trek movie" that I was dying to see. It looked more like a good sci-fi/action picture that happened to be set in the Star Trek universe. Just didn't look as Trek-ish as I thought it would.

    It just seems that every additional film and series seems to drift further away from what we all remember as the best of Star Trek. Maybe...just maybe...no more movies get made, and the series gets cancelled, and the franchise takes a break but makes a more brilliant return in the future. Hey, it happened with the original series! Sure, ST:TMP was not what it could have been, but look at what the movies II, III and IV brought us! Star Trek was back, and in a big way. Even the Next Generation series took a little time to hit its stride.

    It could be that we all just need a nice long break from it for awhile. With the hope that if it ever did come back in the future, it would get treated properly and not played for exploitation purposes.
     
  5. Gardo

    Gardo Senior Member

    Location:
    Virginia
    The cast certainly did its best with Nemesis, but I remember sitting in the theater with a very sinking feeling as the movie went along. The writing was just atrocious at times, and the ending beggared belief. Someday I'd love to know what the heck happened in the making of that film. By the end it was a real train (or starship) wreck. And I'm a fan--prepared to forgive lots of things.

    I've not seen AK in The Haunting, but I sure will now. I've carried her performance in Chariots of Fire in my heart for decades. I don't want to hijack the thread, but what else would you recommend for some quality time with Alice K.?
     
  6. Andrew

    Andrew Chairman of the Bored


    Some of the "logic" was suspect, like why was Worf serving on board? Wasn't he chosen as Federation Ambassador to the Klingon Empire at the end of DS9? And where did Wesley Crusher drop in from?
     
  7. Gardo

    Gardo Senior Member

    Location:
    Virginia
    Right--I remember wondering about the last question in particular. I'm all for poetic license, but things have to make at least some superficial sense, after all. There were other huge plot holes I noticed but don't now remember. And the big emotional climax made me laugh. Granted, I felt a little guilty for laughing, given that I think Patrick Stewart is an extraordinary actor, but still....
     
  8. Scott Wheeler

    Scott Wheeler Forum Resident

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    OK I feel stupid. Alice Krige wasn't in the Haunting. Duh! That is a classic but totally the wrong movie. She was in Ghost Story. Sleepwalkers was not a great movie but she makes it worth watching. Look for her in the upcoming Children of Dune mini series.
     
  9. -=Rudy=-

    -=Rudy=- ♪♫♪♫♫♪♪♫♪♪ Staff Thread Starter

    Location:
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    I agree--a fan of a series (or an entire franchise) is more likely to be forgiving, and willing to let new movies or series prove themselves out.

    In the past, I was always game to give any Star Trek (pardon the expression) product a try. A weak Next Generation episode would be redeemed the next week by something really great. The movies, same thing. Maybe ST:V didn't do it as much for me, but I never did *hate* it like some others do. The fact that they could take ST:V and rebound with ST:VI was comforting...a good bunch of people to work with.

    But after seeing DS9 for a couple of seasons on and off, and maybe the first couple of Voyager episodes, there was an undescribable magic that, to me, was gone. All the elements were there (Star Trek universe, costumes and makeup, appropriate sets), but for me it just didn't work. Once that happened, it somewhat eroded my faith in some of the other newer projects, such as the films with the Next Generation crew. I gave DS9 and Voyager, and all the films I've seen, a fair chance. But based on the later films and series, I don't look forward to any new ones like I used to with the Next Generation series or the original crew movies. The thought of Enterprise really hasn't done much for me, not enough to discover which channel it's on and watch it. Am I missing something? Maybe. Or maybe not.
     
  10. AJH

    AJH Senior Member

    Location:
    PA Northern Tier
    I totally agree with what you have said. I watched quite a lot of DS9 and felt it was losing its focus as it went on. I had absolutely no interest in Voyager- I didn't like where the series was placed, and I felt the writing was sub-par. I watched a few episodes of Enterprise, and there was nothing there to grab me either. After TOS, TNG, and the early movies, there might not be a lot left, besides good writing, that will make us want to watch (and there doesn't seem to be much of it in recent memory).

    AJH
     
  11. Evan L

    Evan L Beatologist

    Location:
    Vermont
    The Star Trek franchise, IMO, is lost without the Roddenberry touch. The original series had it, and so did TNG, but it's more and more obvious that everything since is Star Trek in name only. Very subpar, even the movies made after Roddenberry's death are not really "Trek-ish".
     
  12. Andrew

    Andrew Chairman of the Bored

    That show simply hasn't grabbed me yet. I keep catching the odd showing every five or six weeks, but it just doesn't do anything for me. However, I'm still willing to give them the benefit of the doubt.
     
  13. AJH

    AJH Senior Member

    Location:
    PA Northern Tier
    You are totally correct.

    AJH
     
  14. Michael

    Michael I LOVE WIDE S-T-E-R-E-O!


    Alice Krige is beautiful! She has been one of my all time favorite actresses since "Ghost Story"...a class act.
     
  15. -=Rudy=-

    -=Rudy=- ♪♫♪♫♫♪♪♫♪♪ Staff Thread Starter

    Location:
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    By some accounts, Roddenberry was only very minimally involved with some of the productions. But still, it does seem that his influence, or at least his presence, contributed in some small way that seems to be lacking in many of the productions after his passing.
     
  16. Beatlelennon65

    Beatlelennon65 Active Member

    Problems with Star Trek:

    1) The last movie. I didnt see it because the trailers didnt look very good. From looking at the trailers, I couldnt tell what the movie was about. Good vs evil? Picard vs some villian of the week? Who knew? The production values looked pretty weak too. It just had a hokey look to it. I think the movies have gone downhill since VI. They havent been bad, but they all felt a little forced. I think a problem was the directing and or producing. The actors obviously have worked with each other for years, but the personal conversations and jokes seemed off. It's like either the acting or directing was rushed and or forced. Maybe the writing was bad. The movies could use some better dialogue, that's for sure.

    2) Does anybody remember watching TNG the first season or two? I thought it was a rip off of the first series and the episodes were not that good for the most part. Therefore, we should give Enterprise a chance. Perhaps they will hire some writers for this show instead of the hacks they have now. A few of the episodes have been good, maybe 1/3 of them. I think they should reorganize for the 3rd season and maybe they will hit their stride. TNG dropped Tasha and Will Crusher, changed Worf and Geordi around, added O'Brien, and made some other changes that made the show better. I wish they had kept Tasha though.

    3) They should do another NG movie in about 4 years, but they shouldnt stray so much from the characters. Geordi should be blind and Data should be an android. There should be plenty of action, and it should be well written. A little humor wouldnt hurt. Somebody mentioned Q earlier. Using Q or a mishap with the holodeck would be great. They could travel to different times and places and that would drive the story. A whole movie could take place inside a holodeck, much like some of the better TNG episodes.
     
  17. -=Rudy=-

    -=Rudy=- ♪♫♪♫♫♪♪♫♪♪ Staff Thread Starter

    Location:
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    A good TNG show would go back to the essence of the originals, but that still might doom the film to only come across as a two-hour TV episode on the big screen. So, my ultimate solution is: bring the series back! ;) :D It was one of the few shows the Mrs. and I could ever watch together.
     
  18. SamS

    SamS Forum Legend

    Location:
    Texas
    Boy do I feel silly admitting I enjoyed Nemesis.

    Of course I've seen all the movies and rank 'em II, III, IV, I and so on but really....are we picking too much at Nemesis?

    I took it for what it was, a lot of popcorn fun. Sure the wedding and dune-buggy stuff were hokey, but we had some drama, and nice space fighting. I thought the cinematography was reasonably well done and the guy who played Picard's clone (can't remember his name) gave it 100%.

    Let the tomatoes fly!
     
  19. Andrew

    Andrew Chairman of the Bored


    I'm gonna give "Nemesis" another try when it comes out on DVD. Seeing "Insurrection" a second time softened my feelings towards that film considerably. My main complaint with the last one was "Crikey, not another one with a megalomaniac obsessed with Picard! Been there, done that."
     
  20. -=Rudy=-

    -=Rudy=- ♪♫♪♫♫♪♪♫♪♪ Staff Thread Starter

    Location:
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    I *might* get Nemesis on DVD, but don't have any real urge to do so. Andrew, you have a good point: been there, done that. "Generations" at least flirted with time travel a little differently, but "First Contact" was just a regurgitation of the Borg episode, with a corny premise of the warp drive's inventor being a half-demented drunk (which sort of ruins the movie for me). Insurrection, again, just seems like another weekly installment of the series. A good story, but leaves you wanting at the end for next week's episode.

    Nemesis, from the trailers, just looks like too many outsiders came in, and it doesn't look as much like a ST film as the others did. But I can't judge an entire movie by the trailers. I will probably buy it eventually just to have a complete collection. I can't say it really looks like a *bad* film, but it may just have tampered with the Trek formula to where it just doesn't appeal to me as much it normally would.
     
  21. SamS

    SamS Forum Legend

    Location:
    Texas
    Rudy, I say give it a try. Since I only saw it once, some of the details are escaping me, but my overall impression was that the took some of the best "drama" from the previous movies and re-worked them for Nemesis. So, nothing crazy plot-wise (a la Final Frontier), just good clean Star Trek-type fun.
     
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