Have you ever been overwhelmed by turntables and records? How did you stop worrying?

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by John Fontane, Dec 13, 2018.

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  1. John Fontane

    John Fontane Well-Known Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    Chicago
    It's been less than a month since I got into turntables, and i find myself analyzing music instead of enjoying it. Listening for sibilance for instance. I'm hesitant to play anything. Worried I've set up the table wrong. Worried about messing up records. When I played guitar, at least I could just take it to a tech if I had sound issues. Not so easy with turntables.
     
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  2. Myke Reid

    Myke Reid Forum Resident

    I thought that was part of the fun of the hobby. :cussing:

    Hang in there! After you get everything set up as close to perfect as you can get it, it's a lot easier to sit back and enjoy the music.
     
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  3. csgreene

    csgreene Forum Resident

    Location:
    Idaho, USA
    This is what happens to many here and those that put their gear before the music. You have to decide if vinyl is worth the bother. I'm not sure that it is and I'm equally not sure that it is superior to well-recorded/mastered CDs. I have some hundreds of records left over from the old days and they are engaging in a different way than digital but they are also more troublesome than digital. I've ordered a new Technics SL-1210GR and think I'm probably insane to add another turntable (I use an older Technics linear tracking direct drive table and have a Denon DP23-F that's on loan to my son) but I want to give vinyl another chance on a modern manual table and see how I do with it. If I don't find enough value in it, I'll probably send the new table back and stick with what I've got. Hell, 90% of my listening is streaming Pandora and Spotify. The thing that's cool about records though is you are almost forced to pay more attention to what's on the recording because it's 15-20 minutes per side and then you've got to flip the record over. Also, in my collection, most of the albums I have I've had for 30-50 years and they take me back to a time and place when I bought them. If I were starting today, however, I don't think I'd get into vinyl. It's a thing for us old timers or the hipster doofus crowd. ;)

    There is no shame in listening to music as a music lover rather than an audiophile (most of whom are flat out nuts...;)) I consider myself a member of the former group, not the latter. I don't mess with gear; I set it up and play music. From time to time, I add something but the incredible lengths that some go to, measurements, apps, programs, endless analysis, etc. would bore me silly. The smart man buys a CD player and streams. Vinyl is a tough racket.
     
    Last edited: Dec 13, 2018
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  4. csgreene

    csgreene Forum Resident

    Location:
    Idaho, USA
    My above comments got me wondering about additional streaming on my bedroom TV (which runs through a Marantz PM6004 and a pair of NHT SuperZero speakers). Now, I had Pandora and Amazon Music set up on my Roku but I really am loving Spotify these days, (especially with my premium account). I found that I needed to update my Roku stick to get the Spotify app. About 3-4 minutes after hitting the update button on the Roku menu, I was able to activate Spotify on the TV by playing a song on my phone and then tapping on devices to play through the bedroom system. I can retire the iPad from that duty and control my account from my phone or the Roku remote. It sounds really good. The SuperZeros are amazing little monitors. As a guy who is deep bass adverse, I run these without a sub and to me, the bass is about perfect at the volume I listen to.

    It's stuff like this that makes vinyl more challenging. Still, there's something special about vinyl, even if it isn't the claimed superior sound for many of us.
     
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  5. TarnishedEars

    TarnishedEars Forum Resident

    Location:
    The Seattle area
    As long as you are running a reasonably high quality TT with a low-hour cartridge, and you have your tracking-force set within the specs for your cartridge, then worry not! Under such circumstances your TT is simply not going to put any undue stress on your records, whether sibilants are present or not. And so long as you use the cuing mechanism to cue your tonearm instead of cuing it with your finger, then your chances of accidentally scratching your records is minimized.

    Yes there are a lot of people who in pursuit of sonic nirvana will fuss over a every little detail. But this only has to be you if you want it to be. So just relax and play your records.
     
  6. Myke Reid

    Myke Reid Forum Resident

    I enjoy playing my records, but that doesn't stop me from enjoying the hundreds of cds I've converted to Flac files, or streaming from Apple Music, Spotify, Amazon music, or Pandora. It's an amazing time to be a music fan. No matter how you find it, the important thing is to enjoy your music. If you feel overwhelmed, enjoy the other ways to find happiness with the music you enjoy.
     
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  7. JoeSmo

    JoeSmo SL1200 lover....

    Location:
    Maidstone
    Turntable setup can be a dark art. However, if you do everything recommended by your manufacturer and cartridge manufacturer, then you should be able to dispel any setup doubts and listen with a view as to whether you like vinyl or not?
    I say this because vinyl reproduction is not for some people:
    I was brought up with records and am impervious to their shortcomings (pops, crackles, getting up to turn the disc over every 20 mins) but that’s my demographic. I’ve found a lot of younger listeners, weaned on CD, find these irritants a big price to pay for the warmth of analogue reproduction. Each to their own but I think if you are not sitting back and enjoying your music any more, that’s not good.
     
  8. jacden

    jacden Senior Member

    Location:
    Denmark
    For me it's the opposite situation actually. Back in my CD collecting days I was always worrying about brickwalling, bad EQ and scratched discs. With vinyl I'm usually pretty confident that it'll sound decent when I pick up a new record. It's not a perfect medium (nothing is), and you'll get the occasional tick or pop, but for me that's a fair tradeoff for the analogue warmth that vinyl provides.
     
  9. TTs and Vinyl are a pain in ****. Full of problems etc but in the long run its fun. I still "worry" about my set up and wonder if an album will still sound ok after many years not playing it etc. Surface noise gets on my nerves etc. I am so glad i have oner a 1000 cds to fall back on when i need a break from LPs but i would not give up on them. When its good it is sublime. Keep on in there. You will soon be listening to music and not your system. Good luck
     
  10. The FRiNgE

    The FRiNgE Forum Resident

    I have the impression your expectations are high, and that's good. In the world of turntables, it takes a while to build tech knowledge and skills to feel confident with it. Be patient, and you will trust your setup, the quality of the cartridge and stylus. You'll never have to worry about damaging a record. Your system should set a standard of quality, so that.. for instance you hear sibilance distortion, the problem would be the record (which this does occur) and not with your equipment.
     
  11. Cyclone Ranger

    Cyclone Ranger New old stock

    Location:
    Best Coast USA
    Drugs.
    .
     
  12. Tom Littlefield

    Tom Littlefield Forum Resident

    Location:
    New Hampshire, USA
    Every time I play a record with my system I am in heaven (-;
     
  13. Chris Schoen

    Chris Schoen Rock 'n Roll !!!

    Location:
    Maryland, U.S.A.
    I know my table, cart, etc.. is not the "best", but it is set up correctly, and I think there is good synergy between my components.
    I do have an outstanding record collection and they are mostly original pressings in minty condition (or at least VG+...)
    I do not "collect" records, I play them. As far as my hardware, I always try to upgrade when I replace components.
    It is an enjoyable "journey", with great music along the way...
     
  14. Helom

    Helom Forum member

    Location:
    U.S.
    I suppose I'm one of the "hipster dooofus'" since I'm into LPs but not an old timer. In my defense, I don't have a man bun, wear skinny jeans, or shop at Whole Foods.

    I'm guessing you were led to believe vinyl is superior to digital? Well it can be, with the right records and an empty wallet. Entry-level analog gear can make music "warmer," but it doesn't do so while minimizing surface noise and tracking distortion. One must pony up the big $$$$ for that.
     
  15. enfield

    enfield Forum Resident

    Location:
    Essex UK
    Are scratched CD's really more of a problem that badly pressed /warped/defective vinyl? I think the latest figures say that up to 25% of all new vinyl is sent back because of defects.Which is partly the cause of that format costing on average twice as much as the CD version.
     
  16. chervokas

    chervokas Senior Member

    Those of us who grew up in the vinyl era just played records and didn't worry about it. We stacked 'em on record changers, "cleaned" our styli with our thumbs, adjusted our tracking force by taping coins to headshells, etc. I wouldn't recommend any of those things as "best practices," I'm just saying, we just played our records and didn't worry about it and things worked out OK (well, maybe not so OK for our records!). I mean, I grew up listening to Tommy and The Monkees on a GE Trimline suitcase system like the one below. Sounded like crap I guess, who can remember, but it was just the way we listened to music. So I think there's some degree of just familiarity and unfamiliarity. So, my basic message is, don't worry so much, everything will be fine.

    But, you know, analyzing the sound quality and paying attention to the sound you're getting? -- welcome to the world of audiophilia. Certainly with turntable playback, the sound you get is as much a result of mechanical concerns as it is a result of electrical concerns, and there's more to do as an end user to optimize the mechanical aspects than with CD or computer-based digital, which involve minimal mechanical concerns. But once you're down the audiophile rabbit hole, you'll be questioning the sonic of you speakers, room, digital rig, etc. too. That's not an LP thing, that's an audiophile thing. The trick is not to think of it as something that takes away from your enjoyment of music. It's just a separate, parallel interest.


    [​IMG]
     
  17. Wasabi

    Wasabi Forum Resident

    Location:
    Lutz, FL
    Being basically new again into vinyl after 35ish years, I don't know what I don't know yet so I'm just enjoying it as much as I can. Ignorance is bliss I guess.

    The OCD still lurks though...:D
     
  18. SNDVSN

    SNDVSN Forum Resident

    Location:
    Glasgow
    I love vinyl but it can be a pain in the **** at times. The most important component in the chain is the record itself, a crap record on the most expensive deck in the world will still sound like crap.
     
  19. allied333

    allied333 Audiophile

    Location:
    nowhere
    Not overwhelmed and TT system sounds perfect.
     
  20. jacden

    jacden Senior Member

    Location:
    Denmark
    That amazes me. In the past year I've purchased close to a hundred new records. I've returned exactly two because they each had deep scratches that resulted in numerous loud pops. I don't mind small tics and light crackle as long as it doesn't overwhelm the music. If it does, a good clean will often rectify the problem.
     
  21. Bronica S2A

    Bronica S2A Forum Resident

    Location:
    St. Clair, MI
    Playing records is a kraft. What kind of sibilance do you want to hear? The sibilance you hear depends on the equipment used, the condition of the record being played, how it's been prepared (cleaned), new or used record, how well it was manufactured, etc. I think I've learned over the years that sound quality is part of the kraft of playing records, and you have to find out what kind of sound you like, and come up with the equipment and records that give you that sound. And, to make it more maddening, when you first get and clean up a used record, the sound of a record can change and clear up over time as the record's played (and brushed every time with a carbon fiber brush).
     
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  22. BayouTiger

    BayouTiger Forum Resident

    I've had the opposite result, the 25% sounds pretty close, but then I stopped buying many about a year ago because I got tired of returns. None of these returns were for minor issues, which, after buying thousands of records over the past 50 years I am used to, these were huge warps and worse gouges (not scratches).

    The OP's questions and profile, make me think that he was bombarded by trendies/vintage addicts spewing the silly line of how wonderful and superior vinyl is and bought a minimal rig and is now discovering the reality, that for many, if not most folks, it's just not worth it.

    Hell, I have thousands invested and I question it every day!
     
  23. patient_ot

    patient_ot Senior Member

    Location:
    USA
    There are times when I get frustrated with vinyl. Too many bad pressings/returns is the main thing that drives me up the wall these days. Usually I just take a break and focus more on my CD collection, which is about 4 times the size of my LP collection.

    And yes sibilance, IGD, overload distortion, surface noise, and all the other things that can go along with vinyl playback annoy me. I've managed to troubleshoot most of these problems but it has taken time. If they bother you too much and you aren't too deep into vinyl just yet, it might be wise to quite while you're ahead.
     
  24. riddlemay

    riddlemay Forum Resident

    Location:
    Chicago, IL
    Obviously we can all only give personal answers. Mine is that while I toy with the idea of getting a turntable again (I still have hundreds of my most prized LPs), I can't go back there. I worried too much about setup, the stylus, me accidentally doing some bonehead move, etc. etc., and all the facts in the world that there's nothing to worry about did nothing to stop me from worrying. That doesn't mean that I'm fully satisfied with CD sound. A turntable? Maybe someday...
     
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  25. patient_ot

    patient_ot Senior Member

    Location:
    USA
    This.
     
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