1. This day in history: January 12, 2002. 9:49 AM, California time. The Steve Hoffman Music Forums officially launched with this thread. Thank you for 20 years of music, discussion, and great memories! Join our "Thank You!" thread, and we'll see you in the forum!
    Dismiss Notice

HBO' s "Succession" Any Thoughts?

Discussion in 'Visual Arts' started by audiomixer, Jun 14, 2018.

  1. Juan Matus

    Juan Matus Reformed Audiophile

    Silicon Valley
    Billions
    House of Lies
    Halt and Catch Fire
    In a way also Breaking Bad and Better Call Saul are business dramas
     
  2. Wild Frank

    Wild Frank Forum Resident

    Location:
    Shrewsbury, UK
    Halt and Catch Fire was an amazing show. Similar to Mad Men but set in the 80’s/90’s in the tech/computer/early internet years. Starts slow but builds into something very special. Never seemed to get much exposure when it was on sadly.
     
  3. trd

    trd Forum Resident

    Location:
    Berkeley
    I was going to say BB and BCS too
     
    DonNylon and Juan Matus like this.
  4. Houseplants

    Houseplants Forum Resident

    Location:
    Pittsburgh, PA
    show ruled
     
    Juan Matus likes this.
  5. fspringer

    fspringer Forum Resident

    Location:
    New York City
    Just reviewed last episode. I don't think Gerri was fired (as I stated earlier)? I gather the one-on-one with Shiv after that episode was to underscore her maneuvering to oust Roman (suggesting Gerri file a complaint with HR and put not just this incident, but Roman's odd behavior towards her in general, on record). Gerri knows she's being played by Shiv for her own purposes, and has always been protective of Roman, despite (or maybe because of) his perverse nature. I wouldn't mess with Gerri. Next to Logan, she's the smartest person in the room, and surely has more compassion. While Logan routinely belittles her with the "Interim CEO" tag, she was General Counsel for years, which implies many odd and troubling legal battles she no doubt persevered through and won.
     
  6. Big Blue

    Big Blue Forum Resident

    Location:
    Wisconsin
    It was a little confusing when that conversation started whether she was being fired or had just been fired. I think they may have meant to do that.
     
  7. GregM

    GregM The expanding man

    Location:
    Daddyland, CA
    I no longer see this as a business drama. It's purely a family sitcom, except the humor is more sophisticated, cringeworthy and drama-driven. Even the supporting cast who work at Waystar are more involved with the family situations than the business situations, which are barely explored at all, except that they drive the family issues.

    Mad Men was the exact opposite. The business decisions were always more important than the family drama and drove the show. Business relationships were deep and complex and had significance in social mores and intellectual realities. And the writing never relied on f-bombs and "yes. yes. yes, no, no, yes" type of nonsense.

    Agreed, but Shiv has Gerri in a tough spot because employees must report any instance of sexual advances to HR, even if they're welcome and there is an outside-the-office romance. It not only effects the parties in the relationship, but opens the company to liability from other parties who may be uncomfortable with the behavior of the two. So all of this must be reported. Shiv is in a strong position because she can use it to her advantage whether or not Gerri reports it. She acknowledges Gerri's importance and power, and gives her the option of having a say in how this plays out. If Shiv had tried to oust Gerri without having this conversation, there was a chance for Gerri to outmaneuver Shiv. I guess there still is a chance. But I think we see from Gerri's reaction that her options are very limited now. Both Roman and Gerri are on the way down. The only question is who will replace them. Shiv certainly thinks she's the one. But I think a twist is coming.
     
  8. trd

    trd Forum Resident

    Location:
    Berkeley
    My read of that was Logan wasn’t actually proposing to fire her. It was about putting Roman on the record that this was not on Gerri. Sets up nicely to move him out.
     
    Big Blue likes this.
  9. Big Blue

    Big Blue Forum Resident

    Location:
    Wisconsin
    Maybe. I still don’t have a solid finger on what Logan has in mind, ever. I also don’t see Shiv necessarily doing things as Logan directs or suggests. She has some pretty big chips on her shoulders about being overlooked and ignored. And she’s really not pleased with Roman’s treatment of her since she joined the company as president, where she is justified in expecting to be taken more seriously than she was just involved tangentially as a family member. It seemed to me like her attempt to maneuver Gerri on this was her own play, not Logan’s direction.

    Man, these people… the primary concern about this situation, other than a sense of right and wrong we already know they don’t have, pretty obviously should be the threat of sexual harassment allegations going public and/or to the point of becoming a legal matter, but Logan just doesn’t want anybody to know his son (or, more importantly, I expect, an executive in his family-operated company) is a creep because it might make him less effective in the business. Of course, we’re talking about a guy who had just knowingly risked poisoning his own grandson…
     
    OldSoul and trd like this.
  10. James Slattery

    James Slattery Forum Resident

    Location:
    Long Island
    Glad to see Hope Davis added to the cast. She's great in everything she's in and totally hot as well. I hope she lasts for a while.
     
    dmiller458 likes this.
  11. vince

    vince Stan Ricker's son-in-law

    NOW, we got a show!
    That was a LOT of 'placing-the-pieces-together', and I've been 'hate-watching' the show, waiting for the shoe to drop....and here it comes!
     
  12. fspringer

    fspringer Forum Resident

    Location:
    New York City
    But think about this particular situation. A Top 5 employee texted a dickpic to another Top 5 employee, who happens to be his father. (I think Roman is designated as Chief Operating Officer. What is Logan's title?) The dickpic recipient then informs the company's President (Shiv) that he's received this text, and he's angry. Shiv seems privy to some deeply confidential information regarding a clandestine relationship between Roman and Gerri (that would be hearsay in any legal action). How does she come by this information? I would have to assume Roman running his mouth, making glib comments that could be taken seriously. There is no direct evidence that Gerri is in any way involved with any of this ... without record of this evidence on Roman's cellphone (and presumably previous dickpics texted directly to her). I also think Shiv (President) approaching Gerri (CEO) and assuming she even knows about the dickpic scenario wouldn't be kosher. In theory, Shiv works for Gerri, not the other way around. Normally, I would assume a company President approaching a CEO like that would end with security escorting the President from the premises with personal belonging in a cardboard box.

    True, for a normal employee, this situation would generally mean having (what I guess would be) a company-provided cellphone confiscated and seeing evidence of this. I would also gather for someone like Roman, there is no work/life separation, and his personal life is interspersed with his professional, thus his cellphone and email records are probably rife with all sorts of shenanigans, let alone the weird situation with Gerri. But for the son of the obvious company founder/leader in what we know is a deeply corrupt company? The son on the verge of making a deal that would save the company? I would have thought Logan would have had sense enough to take Roman aside and ask, "What in the hell is this?" Then again, he doesn't know Shiv is trying to oust Roman (but obviously read between the lines after that brief meeting). A lot of interesting dynamics at play here!
     
    OldSoul, Big Blue and BEAThoven like this.
  13. GeetarFreek

    GeetarFreek Forum Resident

    Location:
    Montana
    Man they really set things up for a crazy finale, episode 8 as an all timer !
     
    OldSoul, Houseplants and dmiller458 like this.
  14. Working Pants

    Working Pants Forum Resident

    Location:
    Boston, MA
    Good post.

    Some other observations:
    -I think we can infer that Shiv approached Gerri on her own without Logan's direction
    -I thought Gerri played that conversation with Shiv very well. Gerri doesn't actually confirm or deny anything, and though she has to read Shiv's motives, she keeps it very civil and even feigns gratitude.
    -It's possible Roman's behavior with the pics ends up impacting the investigation; Gerri (or Laurie) is the one with the DOJ contact
    -It's interesting that in the montage of folks arriving in Tuscany, Shiv is shown having someone open her car door, whom she then proceeds to ignore, while moments later, we see Gerri getting out of her car on her own and introducing herself in a friendly way to the estate employee greeting her. Seems like an intentional creative choice and perhaps foreshadows/symbolizes that Gerri has developed allies who will come into play.
     
  15. dmiller458

    dmiller458 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Midland, Michigan
    Shiv had just been telling Tom how she was going to take over. Roman's reckless and adolescent behavior gave her the opening and the ammo she needed to not only take him out, but possibly Gerri too
     
    trd likes this.
  16. BEAThoven

    BEAThoven Forum Resident

    Location:
    New Jersey
    Insightful post here.

    All of Logan's kids want to be taken seriously and consider themselves business "moguls" -- but as soon as a sibling pushes one of their buttons, they revert to being spoiled children throwing toys at each other in the playpen.
     
    fspringer and Big Blue like this.
  17. Big Blue

    Big Blue Forum Resident

    Location:
    Wisconsin
    Isn’t the investigation dead, though?

    Gerri is certainly very smart in all of this. I will be very curious to see if she actually has some kind of slick end game to grab real control, or if it’s more of a head on a swivel, keep herself alive thing.
     
  18. BEAThoven

    BEAThoven Forum Resident

    Location:
    New Jersey
    I want to go back and watch the ending -- Are we to assume that Kendall is passing out and/or ODing in the pool?
     
    GregM likes this.
  19. Big Blue

    Big Blue Forum Resident

    Location:
    Wisconsin
    Yes, but these position titles are clearly a sham in this company, and Gerri is a puppet at this point. I think Gerri is protected far more by what she knows than by her title.

    Agreed it would have made more sense for Logan to just pull Roman aside for the “WTF is wrong with you?” conversation and not involve anybody else, but I think he was genuinely shocked to receive such a thing. Certain values seem to get between Logan and remaining level-headed in his business dealings (his children surprising him with something disappointing about themselves, or a shareholder being Jewish, apparently…). The way he so instantly reacted to seeing the pic does not leave much time for strategizing.
     
    OldSoul and fspringer like this.
  20. Big Blue

    Big Blue Forum Resident

    Location:
    Wisconsin
    When I watched, it seemed to me like he was giving up and letting himself drown. His kids left, so he was finally alone to go ahead and do it. The previous episode, we see him emotionally knocked down, then looking awfully tempted to jump off a balcony. He shows up this episode with his hair buzzed off, wanting to leave all of this behind (well, he still wants to be ridiculously wealthy…), only to be reminded he can never be free because of the worst thing he has ever done. In a character like Kendall, that seems like a solid recipe for wanting to just end it.

    Now, I will be surprised if he actually drowns and is killed off the show. I don’t think this is the kind of show that kills off principle characters like that.
     
    trd likes this.
  21. dmiller458

    dmiller458 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Midland, Michigan
    Kendall nearly drowned in the car wreck that killed the caterer. So it wouldn't be that much of a leap for his drinking and drugging to finally catch up with him
     
    Big Blue likes this.
  22. Hooodo Man

    Hooodo Man Forum Resident

    Location:
    MA
    That's my take. Toward the end when the bottle is upended and floating you can see air bubbles coming from his nose which must be underwater.

    do we need spoilers in here? or do we assume as this airs on a given night you read this at your own peril?
     
    BEAThoven likes this.
  23. BEAThoven

    BEAThoven Forum Resident

    Location:
    New Jersey
    Folks have different opinions on this, but I put it all on the user. For example, I couldn't catch an episode on a Sunday night a while back, but I figured it was on me to avoid the thread until I saw the episode.

    I can understand using the "spoiler" tag if you're posting about the episode five minutes after you saw it on Sunday night when, perhaps, it still hasn't debuted in certain time zones, but... by late Monday morning? I say, let the open discussion start!
     
    OldSoul, Big Blue and trd like this.
  24. GregM

    GregM The expanding man

    Location:
    Daddyland, CA
    It's an interesting situation because the HR action always is to try to steer clear of litigation and liability. But here, Shiv overplays her hand because the only one who would lawyer up is Gerri. Thing is, Gerri doesn't want to lawyer up. So she has to be careful how she plays this. Shiv may be ready to fight but we all know how that plays out--she ultimately will do whatever her father wants. Then they all have to consider the board/shareholders, who are increasingly the deciders.

    They definitely showed air bubbles emerging from Ken's nose/mouth, indicating his face is in the water. I'm horrible at predicting these things, but I am guessing someone sees him and recuscitates him before real damage is done, and Logan has such a boner at his son almost dying that he puts him back in charge of the business.
     
  25. rjp

    rjp Senior Member

    Location:
    Ohio
    every single time i am surfing and this is on no one is ever doing anything but talking.

    do they ever do anything on this show besides talk?
     

Share This Page

molar-endocrine