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Help Adjusting Rega Planar 1 (2016) Anti-Skate

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by jkteddy77, Oct 24, 2020.

  1. jkteddy77

    jkteddy77 New Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    Seattle, WA
    Lemme address these first as I've combed several other threads:
    1. Yes, I know the Rega P1 (2016) doesn't have Anti-Skate bias control, it's fixed by a magnet under the arm.
    2. I have a Rega Planar 1 Plus (integrated pre-amp), and got it for $475. Swapping to the Rega Planar 2 September 2020 w/ AS adjustment would be +$250 after Pre-amp, and I'd surely lose even more value selling this like new P1

    I'm struggling to upgrade the cartridge from Stock Carbon to MP-110. I've seen many have great success with DIYing the P1. Apologies if I came off a little snobby, I'm just not having luck with crafty solutions I've seen from others.

    The AS is far too high stock. The MP-110 is stevenson aligned, and VTF set to 2g, but it just slowly moves out from the center all the way back to the tonearm resting position even just floating. That would destroy my records if I attempted to play anything!

    I CANNOT for the LIFE OF ME remove the AS bias magnet from the tonearm, as I suspect that's the only part causing this drift behavior
    See the Youtube Tutorial everyone's following for adjusting P1 AS, timestamped 2:55 for your convenience:

    In my case, that AS magnet underneath the tone arm won't budge, I've used several kinds of pliers, it doesn't seem to stick to even the strongest magnet. IDK if Rega decided to glue it in now or what just to spite us? Table Purchased Late-2019

    If anyone has any tips: How can you get that AS magnet out to adjust it???
    The P1 is gorgeous, and I don't want a P2 or P3 to be necessary when an MP110 DIY upgrade is desired as I've seen dozens of others achieve.
    I'd appreciate any help, it would be a very big pain to have to remove this cartridge or swap tables to upgrade further.
    :help:
     
    Last edited: Oct 24, 2020
  2. deniall83

    deniall83 Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Australia
    I have no direct experience but if it won't budge then it's likely glued in. All I can suggest is to apply some heat (carefully) to try and loosen any adhesive that might be present. Also WD40 dissolves adhesive and acetone de-bonds super glue. Not sure what sort of glue they might have used but try these at your own risk.
     
    jkteddy77 likes this.
  3. jkteddy77

    jkteddy77 New Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    Seattle, WA
    Hmm, gotcha. I think the glue would be a dot at the very rear, don't think I can get any absolvents to reach the back, it's in there watertight.

    EDIT: I GOT IT.
    Turns out I was right partially. The sides of the cyllindrical magnet were slathered with a white dried glue.
    I adopted a new strategy with ridged needle-nose pliers of grabbing the tip by the sides, holding it tight, and wiggling/twisting until the glue broke, while being careful not to exert any of that force on the tonearm itself. Took 30 minutes.
    Time will tell if any damage was sustained
     
    Last edited: Oct 24, 2020
    PhxJohn and deniall83 like this.
  4. deniall83

    deniall83 Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Australia
    Good job and good luck with the skating adjustment.
     
  5. Noel Patterson

    Noel Patterson Six pack of stout, and a stick of sensi

    Location:
    Ontario, Canada
    Let us know how it turned out. I have a P2 with fixed AS and it would be nice to see how this plays out for future reference.
     
  6. PhxJohn

    PhxJohn Forum Resident

    Location:
    Phoenix, AZ
    Rega probably lost more dollars with lost customers than they saved with that stupid fixed anti-skate. They would have been better off to eliminate it entirely.
     
  7. KT88

    KT88 Forum Resident

    It's fixed at about 1.75g, so it's just fine for that or even a 2g tracking force. It's also normal for a tonearm to float toward the armrest when not in the groove, if the tonearm has good bearings. It's a testament to the frictionless nature of the mechanisms. What's likely to happen here if people try this hack is damaging the arm bearings.

    The problem is that people read whacked-out crap on the net and think they can somehow solve problems that don't exist. The issue here is that folks are thinking that anti-skating force should not effect a stationary tonearm. That's simply put, incorrect. it should effect it, and it was designed to do just that. The real engineering here is that skating forces are only present when a modulated record groove is being played, and so the anti-skating should then cancel that force with an equal but opposing force. Lift the arm from the groove and now you have a force which tends to let the arm drifting to the arm rest. That's normal! If an arm does not behave that way, its bearings are bound.
    -Bill
     
  8. Noel Patterson

    Noel Patterson Six pack of stout, and a stick of sensi

    Location:
    Ontario, Canada
    I just want to say, as a huge Rega fan, thanks for all of your info over the years! If there's a Rega thread, I always look for your input! So thanks, and cheers :cheers:
     
    KT88 likes this.
  9. Sir Talbot Buxomly

    Sir Talbot Buxomly Forum Resident

    Location:
    Glasgow, Scotland
    The arm on the Planar 2 (the RB220) now has adjustable anti-skate. The Planar 1 (the RB110 arm) still doesn't though.

    http://www.rega.co.uk/planar-2-2016.html
     
    PhxJohn likes this.
  10. PhxJohn

    PhxJohn Forum Resident

    Location:
    Phoenix, AZ

    That is great !!!!!! Thank you for the news.
     
  11. PhxJohn

    PhxJohn Forum Resident

    Location:
    Phoenix, AZ
    What I meant was fixed anti-skate is a 'turn off' for many people. And apparently Rega was listening.
     
  12. KT88

    KT88 Forum Resident

    Thank you for your kind words.
    -Bill
     
    Noel Patterson likes this.
  13. KT88

    KT88 Forum Resident

    I get that. I was just trying to explain how anti-skating works and why so many people don't understand and thus get it wrong.
    -Bill
     
    PhxJohn likes this.
  14. Boltman92124

    Boltman92124 Fish tacos.

    Location:
    San Diego
    That sounds perfectly normal actually. It proves your AS is working and your tonearm doesn't have any friction.
     
    PhxJohn and KT88 like this.
  15. Phil Thien

    Phil Thien Forum Resident

    Location:
    Milwaukee, WI
    In my experience, arms pulling away from the spindle on ungrooved vinyl is an indication that anti-skating is too high.

    One could expect skip-repeating on challenging vinyl, more surface noise, and you're leaving sonics on the table (no pun intended).
     
  16. jhenry

    jhenry Forum Resident

    Location:
    United States
    The Nagaokas I’ve installed on the P1 often skip back near the end of the record, regardless of tracking weight within the recommended range due to too much built in anti skate. Removing the magnet and reinstalling a few MM out fixes the issue. Easy to do without damaging the bearings if one is careful.

    This is a common issue. I’m surprised you haven’t experienced it.
     
  17. Phil Thien

    Phil Thien Forum Resident

    Location:
    Milwaukee, WI
    I'm still surprised some enterprising individual hasn't 3d printed a bracket that would allow the magnet position to be adjusted in/out after reassembly.
     
    jhenry likes this.
  18. Oelewapper

    Oelewapper Plays vinyl instead of installing it on the floor.

    Never buy a turntable without all the basic adjustments: VTF, VTA and AS.
    If I were you, I would look for a different turntable, sell your current one and use that money to invest in the new one.
     
  19. KT88

    KT88 Forum Resident

    There is rather certainly another issue. An A-S setting anywhere near the tracking force will not cause that. Damaged records, damaged or dirty styli, out of level tables, and improper cartridge installation could however. The first things that I would do would be to level the deck and clean the stylus. That's free.
    -Bill
     
    PhxJohn likes this.
  20. Phil Thien

    Phil Thien Forum Resident

    Location:
    Milwaukee, WI
    Respectfully disagree with this.

    Anti-skating being too high is a commonly understood cause of skip-repeats (example: RE: Temporary record skipping - John Elison - Vinyl Asylum with John Elison being recognized as having a pretty good understanding of tonearm mechanics).

    Skating forces are also an order of a magnitude lower than VTF. People keep referring to anti-skating values of "2" or whatever because the manufacturers of turntables have put dials on their decks and tell users to set the value to be equal to VTF.

    But that is simply a number on a dial, and corresponds to whatever the manufacturer determined was appropriate for a range of tracking forces. A Technics "2" may be nearly half of another brand's "2" (I have not measured Rega arms).

    And the implementations may vary 5-10% between otherwise identical decks due to tolerances of springs and magnets.

    Technics (on their better decks) and some others seem to have settled on skating forces being approx. 12% or so of VTF, while some other manufacturers are using values as high as 20%.

    So "2" on a Technics may equate to approx. .25g of anti-skating out at the stylus, whereas a "2" on another deck may apply .4g out at the stylus.

    The problem you can run into is, if a vendor preset the anti-skating based on a higher VTF and higher anti-skating ratio, swapping-out to a cartridge with a lower VTF can result in distortion, repeat-skips, and surface noise.
     
    jhenry likes this.
  21. KT88

    KT88 Forum Resident

    I was specifically referring to the Planar 1or 2. They have anti-skate set to correspond with 1.75g of vtf. That will not, in itself, cause a record to skip with any properly installed and working cartridge generally available. Only when the table is not level and the record or stylus is damaged or mis aligned.
    -Bill
     
  22. Phil Thien

    Phil Thien Forum Resident

    Location:
    Milwaukee, WI
    Right, they are known to apply more anti-skating than I think you're imagining.

    Here is a thread showing just how much the preset anti-skating can deflect a 2M Blue's cantilever:

    help: how to adjust anti skate on rega planar 1- Vinyl Engine
     
  23. KT88

    KT88 Forum Resident

    Well we will just have to agree to disagree. I have a lot of first hand experience with these and many, many other tables. None will cause skipping when properly set up.
    -Bill
     
  24. Phil Thien

    Phil Thien Forum Resident

    Location:
    Milwaukee, WI
    For anyone else interested, here is a pic (below) of the 2M Blue cantilever deflecting before/after anti-skating was adjusted on (I think) a Rega 1 (link in the post I made above), with everything else being equal.

    Clearly the preset anti-skating was/is excessive. It looks to still be on the high side.

    That initial excess bias compensation will absolutely contribute to skipping backwards.


    [​IMG]
     
    jhenry likes this.
  25. jhenry

    jhenry Forum Resident

    Location:
    United States
    No. Level table, perfect set up, new MP110, a skip at the same place on every record played. Audibly and visibly too much antiskate. Cured by pulling the magnet and backing off the magnet a couple mm. This is a fairly common issue with trying to put different cartridges on this table.

    Great table for the price, killer for the price. But this is an issue. Easily resolved, though.
     

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