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Help! dynaudio emit m20 too bright! Need amp recommendation

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by Markymark83, Feb 23, 2021 at 3:36 PM.

  1. Markymark83

    Markymark83 Active Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    United Kingdom
    Hi

    I bought some dynaudio emit m20’s a week ago and I’m finding them a little bright, almost sibilant at times. Also it sounds weak at low volumes.
    I’ve actually organized a return but after listening to them again I’m wondering if the right amp can tame the sibilant/brightness issue? It’s not a constant problem, it only shows itself on cymbals and occasionally vocals and other than that and the fact they sound weak at low volumes they actually sound pretty good.
    Can I sort this issue out or am I best sticking to returning them?

    Any help would be appreciated
     
    On_the_dunes likes this.
  2. luckybaer

    luckybaer Thinks The Devil actually beat Johnny

    Location:
    Missouri
    Wow, wouldn't expect that from a soft dome tweeter - especially Dynaudio, whose "house sound" is detailed w/out being bright while bringing amazing imaging and soundstaging.

    I see you have a Denon pma 520 ae? From what I read before buying my Evoke 10, and based on my experience with those speakers, Dynaudio speakers really need an amp capable of delivering high current. Not sure if they have wild swings in impedance...? Maybe your Denon isn't able to feed those Emits what they need. 45 watts per channel into 8Ω isn't what I'd call robust, and 6.8kg weight leads me to think it has a less-than-robust power delivery set-up.

    I can only speak from experience, so I won't toss out amps I know nothing about. I have a Rotel RB-1582 MkII driving my Dyanaudio speakers, and it definitely can give them the juice they need.

    Now, the Marantz house sound is supposedly on the smooth side. Perhaps someone with Marantz amp experience could weigh in. I've also read that Marantz listed specs are conservative, so they have more in reserve than their specs would indicate.

    I have a Schiit Vidar on order, and I've heard it is a powerful little bugger with great "grip" on the low end and not "bright" sounding at all. Maybe that's an option. Unfortunately, I won't have enough time with the Vidar in my system (whenever I get it) to be of much help. I'm sure there's some Schiit Head around these parts that might be able to provide some experience.

    Denon has been described similarly to Marantz, so maybe there is a more robust Denon model you could check out?
     
    warp2600 and Markymark83 like this.
  3. patient_ot

    patient_ot Forum Resident

    Location:
    USA
    Return the speakers and get something else.

    This is why I don't recommend buying speakers without being able to hear them first, ideally with in-home audition or a generous return period.

    A properly designed amp is flat w/r/t frequency response, and will not fix the speaker.

    EQ might tame the highs, but there is also a chance you dislike the speaker even with EQ. The problem is likely the speaker isn't to your taste, or doesn't work well with your room acoustics and placement constraints.
     
    jtw, Robsonschoice, ZenArcher and 5 others like this.
  4. luckybaer

    luckybaer Thinks The Devil actually beat Johnny

    Location:
    Missouri
    tbh, this is probably the best course.

    according to dynaudio, my speakers needed 50 hours of break-in. i'm assuming op has done that.

    op may want to rethink his speaker purchases given his amp, too. i don't think dyanudio or even elac would be good matches for that denon.
     
  5. Markymark83

    Markymark83 Active Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    United Kingdom
    It’s odd, the speaker sounds bright yet smooth, however if the treble had more attack instead of the smooth nature they would be painful to listen to, it’s hard to explain but I’d explain it as smooth treble that is a bit too pronounced.
    Apparently the emits are voiced a bit differently to most other dynaudios.
    I feel I need something that sounds more gutsy but with maybe some rolled off treble?
    I’ve played with the treble controls a bit which helps a little but it takes too much away due to not being able to hone in on the effecting treble frequencies :(
     
  6. patient_ot

    patient_ot Forum Resident

    Location:
    USA
    No comment on the amp, because I don't know it. Best idea is to pick the speakers first then the amp. But many people already have an amp and want new speakers...understandable. A good dealer, or a quick email to the manufacturer should let the prospective buyer know if the amp has enough juice for the speakers. Of course sometimes you don't get good customer service, and many speakers today are more inefficient than the nominal specs would suggest.
     
    Markymark83 likes this.
  7. Markymark83

    Markymark83 Active Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    United Kingdom
    I was hoping I could tame the issues with a more gutsy and darker sounding amp. If I can’t then yeah, I’ll have to stick with the return sadly :(
     
  8. Markymark83

    Markymark83 Active Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    United Kingdom
    How much more juice would I need to get it sounding more gutsy?
     
  9. luckybaer

    luckybaer Thinks The Devil actually beat Johnny

    Location:
    Missouri
    Guttenberg says they are more "alive and exciting" than the "sweet" dynaudio sound he is used to experiencing.
     
  10. Uglyversal

    Uglyversal Forum Resident

    Location:
    Sydney
    The Dynaudio's I've heard sounded smooth, I don't think I'll describe them as bright or ever heard sibilance. There isn't much information here, it could well be the cartridge. It's quite hard to know what the problem is with the information provided.
     
  11. luckybaer

    luckybaer Thinks The Devil actually beat Johnny

    Location:
    Missouri
    I did it back-ass-wards. I bought my amp first, knowing it would have enough "umph" to power whichever speaker I chose. Honestly, I wanted either the Evoke 10 or the ELAC Carina, so I made sure I snagged a beefy amp because I knew my integrated Onkyo wouldn't do either of them justice.
     
    Markymark83 likes this.
  12. Markymark83

    Markymark83 Active Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    United Kingdom
    The problem is the high end is at times a bit too bright, at times a little sibilant. It doesn’t matter what source I use the problem is there no matter what I do :/
    The emit m20’s apparently do not sound like any others higher up the chain
     
    Arclight73 likes this.
  13. patient_ot

    patient_ot Forum Resident

    Location:
    USA
    More power will make the speaker sound louder but it won't necessarily change the overall sound and FR of the speakers. Can't do that without EQ or totally different speakers. Have you tried tone controls and a "loudness" button if you have them on your amp?

    I don't know what Dyn recommends. Talk to them maybe. It looks like your amp has 70W into 4 ohms and 45 into 8. However, distortion rises significantly with that 4 ohm statistic, which possibly suggests the amp isn't that comfortable driving a 4 ohm load.

    Those are 4 ohm speakers, not 8 ohm like some brands/models.
     
    warp2600 and luckybaer like this.
  14. Uglyversal

    Uglyversal Forum Resident

    Location:
    Sydney
    Is the Denon in your profile the amp currently in use?
     
  15. patient_ot

    patient_ot Forum Resident

    Location:
    USA
    Just return them and get something else. Make sure the next set of speakers are better suited to your amp too. Look for speakers that don't have a hump in the treble if you can find some measurements. Use that to help narrow down your list. Won't tell you everything but will give you a rough idea what to put on the short list for home audition.
     
    sotosound, Markymark83 and luckybaer like this.
  16. Markymark83

    Markymark83 Active Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    United Kingdom
    I’m using the denon pma 800 ne, haven’t got around to changing my equipment in my profile.
    It’s not exactly powerful, it’s not a bright amp though which is partly why I stuck with denon.

    I am happy to save and get a better amplifier. I created this post as a last go at finding out whether I can mitigate any issues with something better but if I can’t get a good idea whether a more powerful amp will make it sound better at lower volumes or something to lessen the brightness then I’ll have to stick with the return unfortunately :(
     
  17. Uglyversal

    Uglyversal Forum Resident

    Location:
    Sydney
    At this point in life it'll be hard to remember all the amps that went through my hands, and the ones I have currently collecting dust. What I have learned from that is that I will never again use for my main system any amp that has less than 100w per channel on 8ohms. No matter whether you use only 20w or your speakers can only handle 50W. All the extra reserve power makes all the difference in the world.

    Right now since you don't know for sure what is going on, probably returning the speakers seem like a good idea. I only wanted to mention how I feel about power on amps and say that you should indeed consider going bigger.
     
    Markymark83 likes this.
  18. patient_ot

    patient_ot Forum Resident

    Location:
    USA
    A better amp, while certainly nice to have, is NOT going to get rid of treble boost that some speakers have. From a quick glance at some measurements, it would appear that these speakers have that. Not as bad as some speakers I have seen and heard, but apparently enough to bother you. I think accepting that they aren't suited to your taste and getting something else is probably going to be your best course of action.

    Right, okay. A quick look suggests this amp has the same issue w/r/t 4 ohm speakers as the other Denon amp. I would probably stick with 8 ohm nominally rated speakers to be on the safe side. Of course even speakers rated at 8 ohm are often inefficient and have impedance plots that dip to 4 ohm.

    Next time you are shopping for speakers, don't be afraid to ask the dealer or manufacturer tough questions re: amp compatibility, and also avoid speakers where measurements show treble boost because you probably won't like them.
     
    Markymark83 likes this.
  19. Markymark83

    Markymark83 Active Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    United Kingdom
    Darn it! I was really hoping I could sort this out with a better amp :(
    I was told that a better amp could mitigate these issues but I was a bit skeptical of this. I guess I’ll have to stick to returning them.

    Thanks all for the advice
     
    patient_ot likes this.
  20. Thorensman

    Thorensman Forum Resident

    I would not be too hasty.
    A loudspeaker sits at the end of the chain.
    It passes what it's fed.
    I suspect they are revealing problems
    Elsewhere in the chain.
    I recently had my AVI S2000 preamp
    Serviced. It was lacking bass and drive.
    Now, it boogies
    The soundstage it produces is now
    Exemplary.
    My speakers sound so different.
    Can you borrow another amp?

    Your Denon may benefit from a service.
    I used a Denon pm 350 for a while.
    It was full sounding
    Smooth and no nasties.
    Food for thought?
     
  21. Helom

    Helom Forum member

    Location:
    U.S.
    IDK about that. What you described is similar to what I experienced with the Contour 20s. A very over-hyped tweeter if ever there was one.
     
    Markymark83 likes this.
  22. Markymark83

    Markymark83 Active Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    United Kingdom
    I have never personally heard any other dynaudio speakers, just read a few things online that stated they weren’t voiced like your typical dynaudios. I find these speakers a little odd, I’m really happy with them in so many ways and it’s not like it’s constantly too bright, it’s more occasional like I said mainly on some cymbals and occasionally vocals but yeah, it’s definitely off putting when it’s there!
    It’s a shame to be sending them back
     
  23. Noel Patterson

    Noel Patterson Six pack of stout, and a stick of sensi

    Location:
    Ontario, Canada
    So I have the Emit M20 as well, and they aren't inherently bright, but they are very revealing of source and amplification. And they do like power, lots of it.
    They won't hide or smooth off bright or hot recordings. They won't warm up the sound. I don't think you have enough clean power with the Denon. I ran a Rega Brio-r for a while and it was a great match tonally but underpowered; I bet a Rega Elex-r would be awesome. I have a PS Audio integrated now because it's a lot more power and very smooth.
    Also, they do take a lot of time to smooth out if you purchased brand new. Like 200 hours I have read. I bought mine used so can't really say for sure, but I would at least get 100 hours in on them.
     
    Markymark83 likes this.
  24. Tom Littlefield

    Tom Littlefield Forum Resident

    Location:
    New Hampshire, USA
    I have the Contour 20's and have to disagree...
     
    chipcalzada and Noel Patterson like this.
  25. SonicCzar

    SonicCzar Well-Known Member

    Location:
    New England
    What happens when you adjust the treble control down a little?
     
    Bingo Bongo likes this.

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