Help me build my system to match my "new" B&W Nautilus 804's

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by Bananas&blow, Oct 22, 2017.

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  1. Bananas&blow

    Bananas&blow It's just that demon life has got me in its sway Thread Starter

    Location:
    Pacific Beach, CA
    Interesting that what you are suggesting, the tube pre-amp and SS amp, also describes the above suggested Rogue Audio Pharaoh integrated. I have never used anything tube related. I'm open to them. I just don't know a lot about them other than what I've read on this forum. Since most recommend high powered SS amps for these speakers, that's where I've been looking but I'd be open to a Tube pre-amp if it could also process the 5.1 surround sound.
     
  2. Bananas&blow

    Bananas&blow It's just that demon life has got me in its sway Thread Starter

    Location:
    Pacific Beach, CA
    Sorry Mazzy if I wasn't clear in my original post, this model came out in 1998. So these are somewhere between 14-19 years old. I would hope they are broken in by now :). Now my ears aren't broken in to them yet though.
     
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  3. Bananas&blow

    Bananas&blow It's just that demon life has got me in its sway Thread Starter

    Location:
    Pacific Beach, CA
    I did say that but I haven't given them a good source yet. I'm out of town starting Tuesday for the week for business. When I return I'll connect my Thoren's/ Lounge phono pre combo when I return. Currently my analogue chain is significantly better than my digital source. I'm envisioning a gradual process of upgrades to match the performance capabilities of the 804's.

    I suppose it seems odd that the 804's are my dream speakers being that they are old and there are about 5 or so newer versions of the 804 since this model. The 804d3 being the current line. The guy who sold me these speakers is a B&W dealer in Anaheim, CA. He did tell me the current 804D3's go for $9,000!!! Considering the Nautilus 804's go in the $2,000-$2,500 range, I just can't see the current model being $7000 better (to me anyways). I also believe that the newer model isn't always better. In my office I have the B&W CDM 1NT's hooked up to my Yamaha A-s801 and I am pleased with the sound. I had the current model of the equivalent bookshelf speakers CM5, and they sound smiley face eq'd, overly bright with remarkable bass and a huge hole in the mid bass. The 1nt's are far superior despite their lack of deep bass. But I digress.
     
  4. Got it. I’m sure you were clear. I jumped in late and missed it.

    My B&Ws are paired with Rotel. I had a system since 2003 w old CMs with a Rotel rsx 1065. Nice power and synergy. Mostly for Music but I also wanted the 5.1 for TV movies.

    Just got the new bw 702s2 which are breaking in nicely and I too want to upgrade the receiver at sone point . Rotel, Arcam or ? And the separate stereo amp with an HT Out interests me as well.

    Good luck. I’m following your journey.
     
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  5. Bananas&blow

    Bananas&blow It's just that demon life has got me in its sway Thread Starter

    Location:
    Pacific Beach, CA
    I can say that I absolutely do not want an overly bright/fatiguing system, and if that describes the Halo or Krell amps in combination with the B&W's, then I may have to look elsewhere. I like a good neutral, natural sounding system. I really like the sound of my Yamaha A-s801. Neutral with a tight controlled bass.
     
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  6. RiCat

    RiCat Forum Resident

    Location:
    CT, USA
    Full disclosure; I own Bryston power and pre. I think they are some of the best sounding and build quality available in SS. In general I prefer and recommend a non integrated amp setup. Things change, we upgrade phono sections, DACS and other parts of our systems. Having a good power amp sort of anchors the system. If and when you upgrade separates are more flexible. My opinion also is that having the power amp with its large power supply and heat dissipation separate and away from the low level in and outputs is closer to a no compromise solution for best sound. My pre has its own separate power supply and it is even apart from the preamp. Heat ages components. Fact of life. Having the heat generated by the 300W/chn. amp not in the same container as the pre is again in my opinion preferable and a better design. As is having the power supply, circuit layout and component design optimized for either the power amp or preamp. If there ever is a failure then it is one item not a combo of two that need to be repaired. There are many excellent integrated pieces. I continue to think that when you start to consider amps above 100-150w/chn. it is time to go the separates route.
     
  7. Mike from NYC

    Mike from NYC Senior Member

    Location:
    Surprise, AZ
    I would imagine that a better DAC and a better phono preamp would make it sound even better than getting another amp.
     
  8. Mike from NYC

    Mike from NYC Senior Member

    Location:
    Surprise, AZ
    You live in PHX? Arizona HiFi sells Rogue and would probably let you take home a demo unit providing you give them a CC as a deposit.

    Arizona Hi-Fi - Contact - High Performance Music Systems

    I have the Pharaoh and I think it sounds great with lots or air and awesome imaging and best of all - no heat :)
     
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  9. jon9091

    jon9091 Master Of Reality

    Location:
    Midwest
    Isn’t the Pharaoh a type D Amp?
     
  10. IanL

    IanL Senior Member

    Location:
    Oneonta, NY USA
    Yeah, I wasn't recommending a hybrid integrated. Sorry if that is what you took away from my post. Read RiCat's last post a few times. I agree with him 100% Which actual amp you choose depends on your tastes of course. But I wouldn't be looking at anything below 150wpc, high-current, for those speakers. And if you want home theater processing, forget about tubes. You don't want to waste tube life on movies or TV. Good tubes are worth every penny (you won't want to just use the stock tubes with anything you buy, at this level), but you don't want to waste that premium cost on anything other than 2-channel music.
     
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  11. IanL

    IanL Senior Member

    Location:
    Oneonta, NY USA
    BTW, the Nautilus 804's were my dream speakers at one time too! I auditioned them at Audio Classics, along with the rest of the Nautilus line, with all sorts of McIntosh preamps and amps. In the end, like you, I couldn't swing the price at that time, and I ended up with a full 600-series home theater setup. 604's up front, 602's in back, and whatever the larger of the two center channel speakers was. I didn't need a subwoofer, the 604's with their two 8-inch aluminum woofers were plenty of bass. I biamped everything with a 5-channel 80 wpc Parasound amp for the highs, and a 5-channel 125 wpc Parasound amp for the lows. These were the pre-Halo models, but were John Curl-designed as well. And I used a Parasound pre/pro, which gave me amazing home theater, and incredible 5-channel surround music, and great stereo to boot. That was a hell of a system. The kind with such effortless power and kick you in the gut bass. As far as your experience with the CDM and CM lines, I am not surprised at all by your findings. The CDM was always considered the poor man's Nautilus, and the CM, despite it's relatively high cost, the dog of the B&W lineup. I remember reading that everywhere (and from the Audio Classics folks at the time), so I think it was pretty common thinking.
     
  12. Helom

    Helom Forum member

    Location:
    U.S.
    The new Yammie Mosfet amps sound bright out of the box, compared to their bipolar cousins, like the 801. Given plenty of break-in, they mellow out to the point of exhibiting the same overall tone. Unlike the bipolar units, they impart a tube-like character, much more so than the Rogue hybrids.

    If you're not opposed to going the vintage route, you might consider the B-2 VFET. I plan to own one someday. Yamaha B-2 on thevintageknob.org
     
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  13. IanL

    IanL Senior Member

    Location:
    Oneonta, NY USA
    Parasound is not bright with B&W. I have never heard Krell with them, but Krell does have a reputation for a brighter sound than the other brands discussed here.
     
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  14. JakeMcD

    JakeMcD Forum Resident

    Location:
    So Central FL
    Great amp, but those VFETs don't last forever and they are unobtainium.

    An idea from left field here. There's a Conrad Johnson CA150 still on the Spearit Sound closeout page , and that amp was just freshly reviewed by Positive Feedback. It seems they are no longer manufacturing that amp, but the review was quite positive and the amp has a 3 year warranty. It has a Home Theater bypass, and you generally can't go wrong with CJ. A 5K amp on sale for another week for $2,850. Such a deal.
     
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2017
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  15. Ron Scubadiver

    Ron Scubadiver Forum Resident

    Location:
    Houston TX
    He blew his mind out in a car...
     
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  16. Linto

    Linto Mayor of Simpleton

    2nd hand Naim or Classe.
     
  17. Higlander

    Higlander Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Florida, Central
    I hate saying this, but if that Yamaha 3030 does not sound good with them, chances are its the room, positioning or the Op perhaps is not used to the sound of his new speakers.
    I have a friend with that Receiver, and it is quite decent power wise, and neutral sounding.

    Not saying a Separate would not improve it a bit more, but if out of the gate using the 3030, things are not great, its not the amps issue.
     
  18. Mike from NYC

    Mike from NYC Senior Member

    Location:
    Surprise, AZ
    Yes it is so it doesn't run hot like class A/B amps do.
     
  19. Mike from NYC

    Mike from NYC Senior Member

    Location:
    Surprise, AZ
    All you guys focus on the amps and not the mediocre digital playback equipment and the little bit better analog playback equipment.

    Garbage in, Garbage out.

    I say get a TOL Oppo for digital or something else that is highly rated. A better phono pre would also help.
     
  20. Bananas&blow

    Bananas&blow It's just that demon life has got me in its sway Thread Starter

    Location:
    Pacific Beach, CA
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  21. Bananas&blow

    Bananas&blow It's just that demon life has got me in its sway Thread Starter

    Location:
    Pacific Beach, CA
    The Pharaoh is on my list, considering other options that are less than it's $3500 price tag as well though.
     
  22. Bananas&blow

    Bananas&blow It's just that demon life has got me in its sway Thread Starter

    Location:
    Pacific Beach, CA
    I tend to agree the whole chain needs work. I just compared it with what I was used to with my old speakers to get used to them. To be clear I really like the sound, the overall sound did not blow me away the way I think the speakers can. But again, the CDM 7se's are excellent value speakers and this is what the 804's are replacing. The 7se's sell for $600 used and they sound much better than that to my ears.

    Previously I only used this set up to watch movies and TV, it is now being converted to the music room.
     
  23. StimpyWan

    StimpyWan Forum Resident

    Class D plus tubes. It's a win-win situation. Plus, with a little tube rolling, the sound could be tailored to suit the OP's tastes.
     
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  24. StimpyWan

    StimpyWan Forum Resident

    The Rogue RP-1 tube preamp also offers a home theater bypass function. So, a separate power amp could be picked up now, and used temporarily with the Yamaha, then for the next upgrade, the RP-1 could be added. Now, you'de have a system that is much more flexible, with separates.

    I also agree with a few of the other commenters, where they feel that Krell wouldn't be a good match. Any brighter amp wouldn't work well with the 804's. And while I know it has it's supporters, a Bryston amp wouldn't be on my bucket list either. It's been some time since I've heard Bryston gear, but the 4B amp that I used to use on a daily basis, while clean, was treble dry to me. No top end air and sparkle at all. Just too closed in, unmusical. IMO.

    :hide:
     
  25. StimpyWan

    StimpyWan Forum Resident

    Another thought, a Vincent SP-331 amp. A hybrid tube/SS amp that does 150 watts into 8 ohms, and 300 into 4 ohms. Retail is around $1600, but they can be found cheaper. A well reviewed amp too.

    The Absolute Sound review.

    SP-331
     
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