Help me! Pull out your Van Morrison MOONDANCE LP, give a listen to "Into The Mystic"

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by Steve Hoffman, Jan 15, 2007.

  1. sungshinla

    sungshinla Vinyl and Forum Addict

    I understand that it is difficult sometimes to like something different after liking another version first.

    But IMHO the tambourine sounds absolutely well-integrated into the song on the "WB" white label promo pressing that I have. It has body and realistic sound that, perhaps, are missing or twisted on other pressings.

    Besides, as I posted before, Van Morrison is credited prominently in the back of the cover with TWO instruments: Rhythm Guitar and Tambourine. If he had thought that his tambourine playing was not important to the album, he would not have listed it in the credits. In fact, he does not even list vocals after his name.

    Although I would not necessarily object to including a non-tambourine mix as a bonus cut on what I am hoping will be a SH-mastered vinyl reissue by Warner Bros., if one or the other had to be chosen, then it HAS to be the tambourine version that should be included on the vinyl reissue! That is the original and that is what was intended by Van Morrison (unless you can quote me an interview of Morrison stating that he did not want the tambourine version).

    BTW, I just noticed that Shelly Yakus was one of many engineers credited in the back cover. I have noticed over the years that records with Shelly etched on the dead wax sounds incredibly good! I assume he did not master this LP since he did not inscribe his name in the dead wax. But I am sure the great sound of this LP had something to do with Shelly Yakus being one of the engineers. :righton:
     
  2. Another Side

    Another Side Senior Member

    Location:
    San Francisco
    I heard the non-tambourine mix first as well, Martin. The LP I bought in 1982 had that mix. To me the main difference is in the foghorn. The effect of the newer mix is the faded up foghorn. I like the way it builds up. But now that I have heard the older mix, I do prefer that. Like Steve says Van sounds more clear (could be a result of poor EQ. Too much at 1K probably), and the guitar sounds more natural in the older mix.
     
  3. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Your host Your Host Thread Starter

    The older (tambourine) mix was obviously done at the same time as the rest of the album and shares a similar feel. The remix sounds a bit forced to me.

    At any rate, it's quite interesting because as the Direct Disc Labs LP proves, the original stereo master reels are intact and still have the ORIGINAL tambourine mix on them. So what was used to cut the hundreds of other versions around the world and all the CD's? EQ'd dub tapes, I guess, with the "new" revised non-tambourine mix of INTO THE MYSTIC cut into the reel.

    Weird....
     
  4. MMM

    MMM Forum Hall Of Fame

    Location:
    Lodi, New Jersey
    I'm not really stating a preference for the quality of either mix, just that I prefer the song without the tambourine. There has to be a story to this being remixed without the tambourine.

    I think both versions should be available...
     
  5. Maybe I missed something, but what is the actual evidence that the tambourine mix is the "original mix" or the older of the two? As I stated in several previous posts, my W7 1st press green label (which I posted a scan of) is definitely and unequivocally the NON-tambourine mix. Why other W7's appear to have the other mix I couldn't tell you.

    The mix I hear on the LP I own certainly seems to share the same "feel" as the rest of the album, and sounds great.
     
  6. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Your host Your Host Thread Starter

    My white label radio pressing has the tambourine. The "from the original master tapes" pressing mentioned above has the tambourine. Other reasons, believe me. I just want to know where, when and why the swap was made.
     
  7. pcain

    pcain Forum Resident

    Location:
    Minneapolis, MN
    Oh good! I love the keyboard/sax surge at that point in the song -- I'm sure you can imagine how corny my imaginary foghorn sound effect version of Into The Mystic would sound. Yikes.
     
  8. jojopuppyfish

    jojopuppyfish Senior Member

    Location:
    Maryland
    Paging Mr. Morrison. Paging Mr. Morrison. You're wanted at the mastering factory
     
  9. Don't want to split hairs too much over this, but as has been pointed out in a previous post, labels DID issue white label promo versions on later pressings for certain titles. So it would depend what version of the label the WLP was from. And the "from the original master tapes" designation on the DDL could possibly mean the original master tapes *as they exist today* - with a later "tambourine mix" edited in to the master tape.

    I'm harping on this because I just went back to the other thread and listened (for the first time ever I admit) to the clip that someone posted of the tambourine mix. To my ears, the tambourine sounds like a totally grafted on afterthought, and not well integrated with the rest of the mix whatsoever. So we may just have to agree to disagree on this.
     
    Randu likes this.
  10. 51nocaster

    51nocaster Senior Member

    Also late to the party, but my findings confirm those earlier w/ same stamper.
    Olive Green WB label: 39621-WS-1835 A-RE-1 1D
    No tambourine.
     
  11. Dalziel53

    Dalziel53 Senior Member

    I listened to this again tonight and there is tambourine all through my Gold WB version. It's prominent from the first fog horn and continues to the very end of the song. In fact, I think it's the very last sound you hear on the track and the side.

    I also remember earlier videos of Van playing tamourine and this cut sounds like he is tapping the tambourine against his leg. When you play the other version with no tambourine it very different when you've heard the tambourine version. The more I listen the tambourine gives more of a "live in the studio feel".
     
  12. TommyTunes

    TommyTunes Senior Member

    I'm with Steve on this one, the Tamborine mix sounds in-line with the rest of the album. The other version sounds like it was for a 45 much more punchier and in-your-face.

    Hey Steve, if the original master reel is 15ips, just send them over and I'll check it for you:biglaugh:

    Guess the reissue will have to include a bonus 12" 45rpm of the non-tamborine version:winkgrin:

    And while you got the Morrison catalog open please throw the B-side to Wavelength, "Mechanical Bliss" on something. A damn fine song that never made an LP.
     
  13. TommyTunes

    TommyTunes Senior Member

  14. bresna

    bresna Senior Member

    Location:
    York, Maine
    I bought "Moondance" on CD after hearing the song "Into the Mystic" in the movie, "Immediate Family". I wonder what mix they used for the soundtrack?

    BTW, I am also very used to the non-tambourine mix. Having this new (for me) mix would detract from my enjoyment. I'm sure I'd get used to it eventually, but I doubt it would ever replace my affinity for what I consider "the" mix of this song.

    It would sure be nice to get a new mastering from Steve. If requests are OK, try to put both mixes on there for us newcomers. :D
     
  15. John

    John Senior Member

    Location:
    Northeast

    Hi Steve- Im glad you are listening to the Direct Disc Labs version. That is my reference, and I think Jack Hunt did a great job with it, one of the few 1/2 speeds in my collection that really stands out. It has slightly stronger midbass than other versions Ive heard, which sounds really nice. Is this how the master sounds, or did Jack slightly bump this region?

    Many thanks!
     
  16. Stefan

    Stefan Senior Member

    Location:
    Montreal, Canada
    Huh? On the version I have, it sounds like a string section doing it.
     
  17. Greatest Hits

    Greatest Hits Just Another Compilation

    This is the one I have, Steve but, as I pointed out before, it's in pretty bad shape. Probably played too many times back in the day.
     
  18. JeffN727

    JeffN727 Forum Resident

    Wow! That's exactly when I first heard this song too. I happened to come across this movie while flipping thru the channels one night years ago, heard this song, and bought the CD soon after.
    Even though I was familiar with some of the other songs from this album, I had never heard this one, and I know I have NEVER heard it on the radio, (that I can remember anyway), so I don't think I've heard the tambourine mix.
    The only Van Morrison albums I had owned before were "Best Of" and "Best Of Volume 2" on CD, and neither of those has "Into The Mysic".
    :cool:
     
  19. Greatest Hits

    Greatest Hits Just Another Compilation

    I first heard it in the film, "An American Wedding" from the "American Pie" series. I loved the movie, and I instantly fell in love with the song. I couldn't find the soundtrack anywhere but I did happen to find the afformentioned vinyl copy at a used book store. I guess it was fate. :)

    Does "Into The Mystic" appear on Van's recent comp, "At The Movies"? If so, which mix???
     
  20. kudesai

    kudesai New Member

    Location:
    usa
    Hi all, this is my first post!

    I always heard the "foghorn" as being played by a pair of cellos with perhaps a sax coming in at the end. I could swear it!

    Sometimes its fun to have my perception of a recording changed after so many years... but I will stand by my cellos for the time being ;-).

    K
     
  21. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Your host Your Host Thread Starter

    Could be, yes.

    Welcome...
     
  22. Another Side

    Another Side Senior Member

    Location:
    San Francisco
    I like Steve's theory. I think the "fade up" makes it sound a bit like something else, for instance a cello. But there seems to be a lot of flutter in the sound. It has to be a leslie or something. One thing, though, hearing foghorns on a regular basis here, it doesn't really sound anything like a foghorn. :shh:
     
  23. nin

    nin Forum Resident

    Location:
    Sweden
    I jsut listen to my Simple vinyl version and....well, I need a new one :angel:
     
  24. sungshinla

    sungshinla Vinyl and Forum Addict

    I guess people who are posting on this thread do NOT read the previous posts, judging from the contents of their posts. Argh!

    I think Steve is absolutely right on the point that the tambourine version (as it appears on the radio station white label promo) is THE original version, as intended by Van Morrison. The "W7" green label is NOT necessarily the first pressing/run of this LP. Record companies (including Warner and Blue Note) used to use up "older" labels to cut cost. The "new" label was used for the first pressing/run on many of these. This may be the case for Moondance. If your "W7" label copy does not have the tambourine, then you have a very late pressing/run. Check the thickness of the vinyl. If it is typical of the 70's vinyl, then most definitely you have a much later pressing/run, regardless of the label on the record. I am sorry to break it to many people who mistakenly think that they have an original pressing of a particular record, but the label does NOT necessarily tell you whether you have a first pressing, etc.

    Also, the back of the gatefold cover has a very detailed credit for all the musicians and the instruments they played on the LP. From that information, the "fog horn" sound is most likely the sound of an organ, "vibes" (if by the word, they meant vibrophone, similar to a saxophone but sounds more electronic and less brassy) or "clavinette" (which I am not familiar with, and since I do not know what it is, I am listing it as a possibility). There is no mention of a cello (and in my system, none of the copies of this LP that I own sounds remotely like a cello) or other instruments suspected here. It is possible that the sound may be a combination of more than one instrument, but I think one should start from looking at the credits. Van Morrison was incredibly gracious about crediting musicians who played on his record (see, for example, Tupelo Honey), and I would start from the credits.
     
  25. Dalziel53

    Dalziel53 Senior Member

    Sung, do you know much of the history to know where the WB Gold labels come into play?

    I just found a Gold Label WB Moondance over Christmas and I was quite surprised at how old the label is (specifically the design, fonts, etc). It looks way older than the Greenies and the W7's.

    The one I picked up is a Canadian pressing

    ............ and, of course, it has the tambourine :D
     

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