Help please for headphones. Sennheiser HD 660s meh.

Thanks! I just ordered a pair a minute ago @ $99 USD. Could not resist.

You guys have to come up with a good story for my wife as to why I am getting 2 Sennheiser phones this month. In plain sight in my music room are 2 X HD598s plus the HD650. I am in trouble. And I am considered the cheapskate in my family.

 

Nice!
Any idea how theses HD 599 SEs from Amazon compare to the Massdrop 58x? I’ve been on the fence with the Massdrops for awhile but they come to $235 CAN with shipping.

 

If you want higher quality sound but similar fun factor there are a ton of options these days.

Look into the Fostex x00 line, they have many variations. Ebony, rosewood, mahogany. Then you've got the Emu Teaks along with wood variations. Denon has their own line now too d7200 is supposed to be a great phone.

These phones easily found for 500 or less on the used market.

 

Are we sure the 660's are not fake?
Lots of fake headphones about on the internet.

 

Nope not fake at all.

 

Lmao. Ok I’m working on an alibi.

 

Actually, as a headphone amp that is not an adequate amp. I would not consider that amp up to the task. Especially for a Senn 600 series headphone.

The Senn 600 series of headphones need a certain style and quality of amp in order to perform. The Senn 600 series require a headphone amp with certain qualities otherwise the headphones will sound lackluster. The Senns need an amp that isn't wooly. Wooly sound will cast a veil and the Senns will let you know. On the other end of the spectrum, the Senns also don't do well with amps that achieve clarity and great measurements through the use of excessive feedback. Too much feedback in the amp kills the sound and the Senns will let you know. That style of excessive feedback creates a veil and the Senns will let you know. The wooly sound and excessive feedback sound are two different styles of veil. Both will be heard as a veil. But both are different. Worst case amp is an amp that has both a wooly veil and an excessive feedback veil.

The Senns require an amp that has a natural sense of clarity and dynamics. Good tube amps can achieve that. Good solid state can achieve that. And the Senns are headphones that will let you know if the amp manages to achieve that.

The Senn 600 and 650 are good enough and have the resolution to allow audiophiles to evaluate the differences in amps from the $100 category on up to the $6000 category. The Massdrop edition HD6xx at around $220 is an especially great deal. I can't think of another $200 headphone that has the ability to scale with better amplification and reveal the improvements of that better amplification as well as the HD6xx. I've used the HD600 or HD650 to listen to some $6000 tube amps and be able to appreciate what those amps bring to the table and what makes them worth the money. Other $200 to $400 headphones I own tend to stop scaling at the $500 to $1000 level of amplification. But the Senn 600/650/6xx keeps on going.

The amplification with the Senn 600, 650, 660 absolutely does matter. Feed them poor quality amplification and you will not hear what fans of those headphones are telling you that they sound like. People who like those headphones feed them good amplification and good source.

General hierarchy for the Senns 500/600 series:

The 600/650/6xx are 300 ohms. The 300 ohm versions require better and more powerful amplification than the lower ohm Senns. It's not just a matter of an amp being able to deliver enough milliwatts at 300 ohms. The amp needs to deliver that power with the clarity and sense of ease that the headphones can deliver. Feed it wooly sound or high feedback style of sound and you'll hear the veil. Feed them good amplification and source and they'll scale on up to the $6000 category.

The 660 is 150 ohms and not as demanding of amplification power. But still demanding of amplification quality. The 660 still needs an amp with the same sonic qualities and character as the 600/650 demand. But doesn't demand that the amp be able to drive 300 ohm headphones. The 660 are easier to drive, but still demand an good headphone amp. However the 660 tends to stop scaling or revealing the improvements in amplification at around the $500 to $1000 mark. They're easier to drive, but don't scale as far, or reveal as much, as the 600 or 650 or Massdrop 6xx.

The 590 series are around 50 ohms. Much easier to drive. But don't scale beyond the $100 or $200 amp and source category.

For listening straight from a laptop I would choose the 590 series. The 590 series (or current 599) will be easily driven by my laptop headphone jacks and sound good and the laptop output will pretty much max out their sound quality potential.

For listening through a $100 to $200 headphone amp (like Schiit Modi or similar) I would choose a 150 ohm Sennheiser like the HD660 or HD58x.

For listening through my more expensive amps I would choose the HD600 or HD650 or Massdrop HD6xx.

 

I will keep the Massdrop 6xx headphones till I can afford to get a more powerful amp.
Thanks for the post.

 

I was watching this video about the Emotiva A-100 and I see that you can route the full speaker output signal to the front panel headphone output with jumpers.
People seem to recommend this for Sennheiser 600's and 650's.
Luckily I found the bag with the jumpers.
Will try this on the weekend and see if it makes a difference.

About 2:00 mins in.

 

Ham, just like the OP, I am using the Marantz HD-DAC1, which, nominally at least, should drive the Series 600 (your opinion?).

But looking at the specs for the HD650 and the HD6XX (I still have not received mine), I think the thing some of us don't like and hear/describe as a veil or dullness is that sharp notch around 9 kHz in the frequency response curve, which is pretty steep and acute. I wasn't there when they designed the drivers, but I cant think that is a desirable characteristic.

 

You don't know their settings and accessories, or the decisions made in the recording or mastering phases.

 

Well I have more intimate time with many instruments in a real time band mix.
EVH used greenbacks and JBL speakers. Miked with Shure 57’s.
I’m kinda good friends with guys who have worked on Eddies amps like Dave Friedman and others. I pretty much know how a good plexi sounds recorded.
Not bragging.

Those Sennheisers have a veil over them and are laid back. If you like em that’s fine. Everyone has different tastes.

Peace

 

The Senns will perk up quite a bit if you use an amp like a Schiit Jotunheim or Auralic Taurus or other similar amps. The amp used with the Senns really does make a lot of difference. Changing amps can make you think you're listening to a different headphone.

 

I haven't listened to the Marantz HD-DAC1. I assume from the way its sound is described that it isn't driving the HD600/HD650 or even the HD660 well. Whether that is due to lack of power or enough voltage swing or due to tonality or amp design I don't know.

Don't get so hung up on the 9 kHz dip that show up in the Massdrop measurements of the HD6xx. Dips like that in the treble frequency response can depend or be affected by the particular measurement setup. The treble region is tricky to measure with headphones and depends on the measurement rig setup and procedures. Some measurement rigs have an artificial external ear and the particulars of that ear will affect the treble region measurements around 8 kHz and above.

Dips like that are often not audible. But spikes more often are audible. Dips tend to fill in and not be noticeable to the ears.

Measurements are far more useful if you get both the frequency response graph and a CSD (cumulative spectral decay or waterfall graph) graph made with the same measurement setup and without moving the headphones on the head. When you look at the CSD graph you'll sometimes see the dips quickly fill in.

 

FWIW I quite like the liquid spark (cavalli x monoprice) with senns (I use the hd650). I also have a Schiit Vali 2 too, which is another great, cheap option. Good times for affordable headphone amps these days.

 

How do you find the Vali 2 in comparison to the Liquid Spark with the Senns?

 

I have the Marantz HD DAC and it drives the Sennheisers fine. More than enough power. The Marantz is pretty snappy as well.

 

I like both. Vali 2 with a nos amperex is a bit more involving/ dynamic/ holographic, but there is something addictive about the presentation of the liquid spark. I use it as part of my bedroom system and listen while my kids are falling asleep and I’m reading—it is a really good combo for unwinding: laid-back but still very fun and engaging when paired with the equally inconspicuous Metrum Flint dac.

 

The specs rate it for phones up to 600 ohms. It has 3 gain settings but I don't find that raising the gain setting changes the HD650 sound profile (it just gets louder but the treble notch is still there). Very nice piece of hardware.

I will report back when I get the HD6XX.

 

I love the Marantz man.

 

My 650s sound wonderfull via my Cyrus amp. Cyrus amps have a superb headphone input. Very happy

 

Your forgetting there's a producer, sound engineer, and mastering engineer who will change the sound before you get to hear it. Don't dismiss the huge impact they carry on the final product.

 

Lmao dude I know.
I like how you are insisting on this.
I know what an electric guitar sounds like live.
I know how many other instruments sound live pretty damn well after playing so long.
I also am familiar with the attack of these instruments.

I don’t claim to be a world class musician.
However if you asked a concert violinist their opinion on how a set of speakers or headphones reproduced the sound of a violin would you tell them they don’t know how the producer and engineer affected the sound if they felt a certain product didn’t represent the sound well?

Lol. Geez

 

Insisting? It's my first reply to you on this topic.

 

Ah pardon. Thought you were the same guy who told me this before.