Help with Turntable Setup

I’ve been a vinyl collector for a long time, but have only recently begun getting into the hardware side. My setup is a Pioneer SX-828, Denon DP-300F with Ortofon Red, Pro-Ject Tube Box DS Pre-Amp, and Elac Debut F6s. The preAmp is a new addition, but probably has 20 hours on it since I hooked it up. Some records sound great, but some sound really muddy and super bassy no matter what knob adjustments I make. I have it configured to the recommended settings for my cartridge. Any ideas?

 

Does your Denon have adjustable VTA?
It often has a considerable effect on the “muddiness’ of the sound.
I still find that many recordings sound as you describe and I don’t know what can be done about it. If your best recordings sound great then the table is probably set up correctly.

 

Is the jumper set to variable or fixed. If it's jumped to fixed, the knob doesn't do anything.

 

Sounds like you are hearing some crappy vinyl that has not been mastered very well.

 

Maybe you're just taking notice of the fact that some records sound muddier and bassier than others for many reasons including production and mastering choices.

 

The few "new" (180g Audiophile) records I am getting, especially if it's material I am quite familiar with, DO sound muddy and muffled. Just played an "Iron Maiden" record and wasn't very impressed by it (compared to my high rez digital file on the PC). I am told, in most cases, that the original pressings from back in the day are better sounding for the most part.

 

It's a case by case basis on everything. Another thing, just because it's pressed on 180g, doesn't mean it's "audiophile". There are only a small number of real audiophile labels (e.g. MOFI, Analogue Productions, Impex, etc.) and their releases aren't distinguished by being on thick vinyl. They are audiophile releases because the labels put effort into getting the best sources (actual master tapes) and hiring the best engineers to cut the lacquers, and the best plants to press the records.

If you want to check your system, use a recording you know sounds good. "Muddiness" can come from a lot of things. It could be the phono preamp or your speaker placement, for example.

 

All things being equal with your actual turntable setup being OK in all other respects, there may be two factors at play here, the second probably having more bearing:

1. 180g pressings are thicker & therefore the turntable arm will be more 'tail down' which results in boosted bass & reduced treble.
2. Many modern LPs including reissues have used ProTools or some other form of digital mastering & because technology has advanced with time, it is now easier to accommodate a wider bass response compared to analogue tape saturation & other factors from the past (the levels and frequencies contained in a vinyl record are affected by the depth and width of the grooves, especially 180g or 200g). There also seems to be a trend towards maxing out bass response on a lot of new issues.

 

I listen to this system ALL the time (prior record played day before was an AWESOME pressing of "Revolver"). The 2 specific examples to support my claim are the above mentioned Iron Maiden (Seventh Son...) and Rush - Fly By Night (bought couple years ago).

 

Man, Ortofon Red is a bright sounding cart to boot. You don't happen to have another TT to conduct an A/B test, do you? If no, Try switching the settings of your pre-amp.

 

Several suggestions for you: Make sure your speakers are not in the corners of the room or right up against the back wall. Check the tracking force on the tonearm and make sure it is no more than 2g. Get a 2m Blue stylus for that cartridge, which will help there. Get an Audio Technica cartridge which will brighten things up as well.
-Bill

 

I don't believe that these do. They are fixed for an AT or Denon type cartridge height, so the 2m Red should be about right as far as height goes. He might also have a dirty needle or his speakers too close to his turntable and getting acoustic feedback. The DP300F is more susceptible to that than many other designs.
-Bill

 

How about some pics of your system so we can see how the speakers are arranged?

 

Looking at pics of his phono preamp. The correct setting for the 2M Red would be 100PF capacitance, 40db of gain, and 47K resistance.