"Hemingway": PBS Bio Film 4/5/21

Discussion in 'Visual Arts' started by The Panda, Mar 24, 2021.

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  1. fretter

    fretter Forum Resident

    Location:
    PA
    I liked it. Obviously part of the appeal is the interesting life story. I loved the readings. That was like the best books on tape version ever.
     
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  2. Tim Lookingbill

    Tim Lookingbill Alfalfa Male

    Location:
    New Braunfels, TX
    Just finished watching episode three. Brutal!

    And quite sad as a documentary on a man's life as a writer that felt like the display of American exceptionalism in our self centered culture turned into an art form.

    And to any detractors of Ken Burn's documentary style the ending showing NBC news talking head Edmond Newman saying Hemingway shot him self accidentally after a bout at the Mayo Clinic for treatment for high blood pressure shows that those that write history don't always tell all the truth. It makes current fake news seem like child's play.
     
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  3. Spencer R

    Spencer R Forum Resident

    Location:
    Oxford, MS
    If someone made a six-hour documentary about my life, I’d be embarrassed, perhaps ashamed, of many things I’ve done. We’re all flawed human beings.

    Yet watching this only reminded me of what a truly awful person Ernest Hemingway was. I was an English major in college, and read all of Hemingway’s work from the beginning through Old Man and the Sea during that time, and he was undeniably a great prose stylist, who, as this documentary notes, single-handedly changed the direction of American writing.

    I couldn’t care less about the revelations of “androgyny” or “gender fluidity”: that aspect of his life has long been evident to anyone who read the books and paid attention. It’s all there in his work.

    But the way he treated his wives, his children, other writers. The self-destructive drinking. The constant lying about his military record, and other self-puffery. The pointless slaughter of majestic animals, oops, I meant to say “big game hunting.” The romanticization of the pointless slaughter of majestic animals, oops, I meant to say the “odes to bullfighting.”

    What a horrible, awful person. I don’t believe in “canceling” people, but, after watching this documentary, I personally have no desire to go back and re-read one of Hemingway’s books ever again.
     
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  4. MrGrumpy

    MrGrumpy Forum Resident

    Location:
    Burbank
    I also thought the ending was done well. Sadly we see Hemingway speak just once, and it's painful. He sounds like Kevin from The Office, with the diction of Ozzy Osbourne or Brian Wilson. Such a shame.

    As for the multitude of wives, by the time you assume the title of Mrs. Hemingway #3, you'd be stupid not to have your eyes wide open and realize that your term will be short. Even #2 must have known that what comes around goes around.

    P.S. It wasn't as woke as I'd feared, apart from the redactions. We'll see if Ken (and/or his sponsors) gives certain naughty words a pass in the Muhammad Ali doc.
     
  5. David Egan

    David Egan Forum Resident

    Location:
    Oakland CA
    He presented the North Vietnamese with dimension as well, with hopes and fears like actual people. He tell s a story with as wide a perspective as possible in this format. Most of the criticism comes from folks who were disappointed that their particular perspective wasn't represented. And maybe it wasn't but what Ken Burns offers vastly outweighs what he misses.

    Seriously flawed people accomplishing great things. It's the history of mankind.
     
  6. GMfan87'

    GMfan87' Forum Resident

    Location:
    CT.
    This is often an unflattering portrait but he was very much a product of his time. It's a shame he lived life caring so very much how macho his image was, but that could of been partly cause he was battling feelings about gender.
    The marriages were a head scratcher to me , you know the rep.. and especially Mary the last wife ! She lived with him a while and was going to leave , then she marries him.
    The son's letter to him was excruciating, however there seemed to be a good deal of truth there.
    A very sad end and awful he couldn't be treated properly for mental illness.
    He should be remembered for his literary contributions and hopefully his books will continue to be discovered.
    How do all of you here feel about his books ? Have you read most of them, or will this inspire you to?
     
  7. Tim Lookingbill

    Tim Lookingbill Alfalfa Male

    Location:
    New Braunfels, TX
    That was the most odd thing about the documentary is we never get to hear him speak in all the episodes until near the end of the last one when the loss of his short term memory after the shock treatment required he read off a script wrote on cue cards himself to read from. The sound of his voice just didn't match my impression of him as a macho adventurer. And I certainly don't see how women would find him attractive with that whiny voice.

    To me he just sounded like your typical cranky next door neighbor yelling at your kids to stay out of his yard. He clearly had too many blows to the head and possibly PTSD from action in both wars on top of what the shock treatment did which makes sense he'ld end it like he did. Clearly he must've been better read than heard vocally. Jeff Daniels as Hemingway was a poor choice as a voice over.
     
  8. MrGrumpy

    MrGrumpy Forum Resident

    Location:
    Burbank
    Agreed on Jeff, also. They could have at least hired someone with a Chicago or midwestern* accent. Maybe Patrick Hemingway could have done it.

    (None of the wives looked that attractive, btw - "handsome" at best!)

    * P.S. OK, I see Jeff Daniels was raised in Michigan, so maybe he has some sort of midwestern accent.
     
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  9. Wright

    Wright Forum Resident

    For a heavy dose of Hemingway's voice, he narrates this film:



    I think it's powerful and expressive enough.
     
  10. Matt Richardson

    Matt Richardson Forum Resident

    Location:
    Suburban Chicago
    Hemingway's voice was fine. It's very Midwestern with a degree of Chicago accent thrown in. A great speaking voice? No, but writers often aren't great at speaking. That's partially why they prefer to express themselves through writing. Anyone ever here Stephen King's voice? He sounds like a goofy little school child to me.
     
  11. Matt Richardson

    Matt Richardson Forum Resident

    Location:
    Suburban Chicago
    The only marriage of Hemingway's that was a head scratcher to me was #3, which was also his shortest marriage, I think. He first married very young, perhaps for his wife's trust fund, but she never seemed EH's type to begin with. He then left her for her best friend, the Vogue editor in Paris. They moved to Key West and there he seemed happy and settled. But after 10 years he leaves all that for the reporter lady. That marriage falls apart within a couple of years and he "settles" for Mary Welsh. That marriage was never a happy one from what I read, but Hemingway confided to his friend Hotchner that he was just too old to go through another divorce -But at least she did seem to care about EH and his legacy, even though Hotchner seemed to dislike her strongly.

    I guess EH just was one one of those men who didn't feel comfortable going through life unless he was married, unfortunately.
     
    Last edited: Apr 10, 2021
  12. MrGrumpy

    MrGrumpy Forum Resident

    Location:
    Burbank
    The commie propaganda film was 1937; his post-Nobel interview was 17 years later in 1954; a lot of brain damage in that time.

    He hated sleeping alone, per Ken Burns, a result of WWI PTSD that stayed with him for life (or it might have started earlier - can't remember details).
     
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  13. Matt Richardson

    Matt Richardson Forum Resident

    Location:
    Suburban Chicago
    I haven't seem this new documentary but I have read most of the stuff published in his lifetime except Green Hills of Africa. Perhaps I'm wrong, but I have a feeling that's about 250 pages of hunting stories, which I'm not too interested in. The first novel is my favorite, followed closely by Across the River and Into the Trees, which is supposed to be his worst novel, but I really liked it. His short stories are all excellent, IMO. Death and the Afternoon is chore if you're not into bullfighting (which I'm not). It's not a novel but entirely a non-fiction handbook on bullfighting, but in the last chapter EH lets it go and becomes the great author that he is.

    I think no matter how our culture changes, WOKE and all, EH's legacy will always be a great one. His output is just too good. Much finer than Gore Vidal, who described EH as not much more than a Field & Stream magazine author. That was a pretty stupid comment, I think, but then Vidal liked to say dumb things on talk shows about other writers because it made him sound superior. Are there more than a couple of people reading Gore Vidal today?
     
    Last edited: Apr 10, 2021
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  14. Wright

    Wright Forum Resident

    I know that, but perhaps I was unclear; I meant if anyone was interested to hear his "normal" voice at length. (Though it's still obviously not his conversational voice).

    I watched The Spanish Earth, but I found it mainly pro-Republican and anti-Franco.
     
  15. Borgia

    Borgia Do not speak wisely of this night

    Location:
    Arkansas
    I came in to this not knowing anything about Hemingway except that he was a writer who committed suicide. I actually thought the suicide was because he had been diagnosed with cancer, not sure were I got that idea. I had a vague notion of his macho reputation, bullfighting, the Spanish Civil War, etc. but that's about all. After watching all three episodes all I can think is what a tragic life. He was not someone you would want to be, or be around. I was amazed to learn he had suffered so many serious head injuries. That along with the alcoholism probably explains his mental state. I will read me some Hemingway for sure. I've ordered Blood in the Sand, and will try The Old Man and the Sea.
     
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  16. Wright

    Wright Forum Resident

    Sorry, what is that?
     
  17. They were "valiantly fighting" to preserve slavery, regardless of how kind, genial and polite Shelby Foote was. That cause needed to be lost.
     
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  18. Borgia

    Borgia Do not speak wisely of this night

    Location:
    Arkansas
    Death in the Afternoon, I should have said. I don't even know were I got the other title from, maybe an old movie? Shows my unfamiliarity with EH's work.
     
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  19. Matt Richardson

    Matt Richardson Forum Resident

    Location:
    Suburban Chicago
    I think we all know that Ken Burns's objective is to get inside the heads of the subjected people. That's why he so often uses their own letters as feed. I don't think Burns or Shelby Foote are lamenting themselves that slavery was lost -at least I hope not.

    How many Vietnam documentaries portray the American soldier valiantly fighting in Nam, even though their cause was a horrible one (IMO). A documentarian's purpose is to make us understand what's motivating the participants -not agree with them.
     
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  20. smilin ed

    smilin ed Senior Member

    Location:
    Durham
    I had a Literature professor who said that the one thing we have to be thankful to Hemingway for (apart from some Woody Allen gags) is writing To Have and Have Not so Hawks and Faulker could turn it into a great movie (albeit a Son of Casablanca). As far as I'm concerned, I love the In Our Time stories, especially The Big Two-Hearted River, a terrific story that's really about loss and the damage done in war, A Moveable Feast (see Allen, again), The Old Man and the Sea, Fiesta/The Sun Also Rises (see Horsefeathers) and, despite my professor, To Have and Have Not. I also love his public stance on the Spanish Civil War.

    Here's Hemigway with Roald Dahl:

    [​IMG]
     
  21. misteranderson

    misteranderson Forum Resident

    Location:
    englewood, nj
    Well..Hemingway was reading from cue cards and obviously very, very uncomfortable in that speech. I wouldn't put that solely down to his concussion history or alcoholism.

    The EH wife I came away having the most respect for was Martha Gellhorn, an accomplished journalist in her own right who, from what's in Burns' film, stood her ground with Hemingway more than any other woman in his life.

    The redactions were unfortunate, but that's PBS these days. Still, the drive-by EH did on James Jones and From Here To Eternity was one of the rudest, most hate-filled, vicious takedowns I've ever heard. Ernest would have been right at home on Twitter.
     
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  22. GMfan87'

    GMfan87' Forum Resident

    Location:
    CT.
    Seemed like they were in love and happy in first marriage but people can change as the years go by.
    The third made sense to me because she was a tough character, woman ahead of her time but they'd wear each other down, being too similar.
    From what the doc revealed it would appear he quickly became infatuated , thought it was love and wanted to be married , but was eventually bored.
    He was a restless adventurer that probably wouldn't be cut out for long term commitments.
     
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  23. Wright

    Wright Forum Resident

    In this interview from the same period, Hemingway uses the same awkward reading method:



    Though it's more understandable here, given that it's in Spanish. But it's a shame that no "real" speaking footage of Hemingway exists - whether in interview, lecture, or conversation form. It's pretty strange, actually, for a writer of his stature, as you can easily find that kind of footage from Faulkner, Steinbeck, and Dos Passos on YouTube. Did Hemingway have an aversion to being on camera?
     
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  24. sharedon

    sharedon Forum Zonophone

    Location:
    Boomer OK
    Here's an audio collection of his reading his work, if you dare or care and are on Spotify:

    Reading His Own Works
     
  25. misteranderson

    misteranderson Forum Resident

    Location:
    englewood, nj
    I don't know...the list of artists who were pretty lousy people, or at the very least, were ruthless in the pursuit of their art, is very long. Hemingway ended up doing as much damage to himself as anyone close to him, even before his suicide.

    Maybe I should throw all my Miles Davis stuff away.
     
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