Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by paulg61, Oct 6, 2007.
I hope not. The P33P of this title is a bit bright.
I would think that the correct stereo mix is much more common. AFAIK the incorrect, alternate stereo mix was only on the Polydor CD. Also, some or all of the Axis tracks on the (non-HDCD) Ultimate Experience cd use the alternate mix.
I don't think anyone knows if it is a vintage, unused 1967 mix or if someone created a new stereo mix in the early 70's and that mix was used..
The liner notes of Live and Unreleased/Lifelines is full of errors. Note that this is the same set that has that bogus studio version of God Save The Queen that has zero Hendrix involvement. Someone sent them a tape of some random 80's guitarists recording of God Save The Queen as a "rare Jimi track" and they fell for it and broadcast it and put it on the boxset. IIRC an alternate mix of Castles with a slightly longer fade is on Lifelines. Castles is on side 2 so it couldn't be from the reel Jimi left in the taxi..
Quoted from another Hendrix fan:
"The original mix I think was only released on Track (UK) , Reprise (USA & Canada) and Barclay (France). This 'safe' mix is from the first Polydor release from 1967/68, as released in most of Europe, Japan & probably the rest of world. also later on in UK on Track records November 1970 'Backtrack 11' release and then on Polydor UK from 1972, until Alan Douglas re-released the original mix (remastered) worldwide."
Here are a pair of audio examples I through together to help illustrate the different mixes. Apologies up front for sound quality and volume differences. In both examples, you will hear the stereo mix from EH followed by the alternate stereo mix from the West German Polydor disc, then finally the mono mix from the Classic Records reissue.
Little Wing - On this song, the reverb on Jimi's vocal is sent to the right channel on the official mix but kept centered on the alt mix causing him to sound much phasier. The same effect naturally takes place on the mono. The bum note is corrected on the mono mix and the drums following "riding with the wind" are much louder.
You Got Me Floatin' - The backwards intro is only present on the official stereo mix.
Thanks for posting the comparisons Ascot. As someone who has only ever known the "alternative mix", I never considered that a "flubbed note", more like a little extra high note or squeak. I always thought this version was one of the better versions of this album but I see there are people searching for the non RE-1. How does that sound compared to the original Polydor?
What is the time for the entire CD on the Polydor (Japan/UK) Alternate Mix?
I can let you know when I get home from work, or maybe someone else has a copy handy?
The West German one I have (which I loosely referred to as the "UK" issue in the other thread) has this Total Time:
Cat#: 813 572-2
Matrix#: 813 572-2 01 * AA
The cab driver probably threw it in the trash when cleaning out the cab. If that tape did show up it would be worth a pretty penny.
Thanks, hopefully this is the same as the made in UK Polydor (Same cat #) I scored over the weekend on ebay from the UK for abouth $12 shipped!
This is correct re: the 1970 Backtrack and 1973 Polydor two-fer releases. I have both and they both have the later mix.
Darcy, is the POCP-2020 the same/ different to the P33P ?
Ok I think you guys have half of the story. If I remember right, didn't they actually find a backup of the original mix under the bed of Noel's girfriends? I thought the story was that they found that, ironed out the crinkles, and used it instead of the attempt at remixing. From what I remember reading, they tried to redo all of the mixing but just couldn't pull it off so they used the second gen copy of the original mix instead.
That was just If 6 Was 9.
Really? I could've sworn it was about the whole 1st side. Okay now I'm confused and will have to hunt down those quotes. I can't even remember who was telling the story.
Nope, just If 6 Was 9. Eddie Kramer has told the story many times of how they had to iorn the tape of Noel's rough mix and how they had to mix the rest of the side in one night.
Not trying to hijack this thread, but does anyone know how much longer the take of "Little Wing" that was released on this album lasts on the master tape before it breaks down? It is so frustratingly short on Axis, I wish there was more of it to hear.
I've often wondered the same thing. It seems like the solo fades at the most emotional part. I'd love to know how much longer it continues after the fade. FWIW the early take on the box set is a good deal longer as are all live performances.
Just wanted to bring up something I've discovered which I do not believe has been mentioned. I followed this thread in the past but had nothing to contribute.
I now have the Polydor W. Germany 813 572-2 and the Japan P20P 22002 CDS. The most confusing part of this discussion has been which mix is on the P20P Japan disc. Some say it's the alternate mix, found on the Polydor W. Germany 813 572-2, some say it's the original mix.
It's possible that everyone is right. How could that be?
My Japan P20P 22002 has the following matrix: P33P-25023-A2K. The face of the CD has the P20P-22002 numbers, it's the matrix info that's different.
Both CDS share the same alternate mix. The total time on each disc is very different. The W. Germany is 39:47. The Japan is 39:07. The German disc has very long pre-gaps on the tracks which is why the time does not match the Japan disc. Both discs do not have the into to "You've Got Me Floating".
Now to the guessing part of my post:
Perhaps some of the P20P Japan discs members are listening to, actually have P20P in the matrix. Maybe the P20P matrix discs do not use the alternate mix.
There is a Japan Axis disc with P33P as the catalog number. Remember, my P33P matrix disc has the catalog number P20P, on the art and the cd itself. Maybe when the catalog number was changed to P33P, Polydor Japan stopped using the alternate mix. This would explain why Pig Whisperer said this disc is bright and why another said the intro to "You've Got Me Floating" is on this version.
So to help clear things up we need two things.
1. Someone who owns the P33P CD with the Obi that stated "remixed and remastered" to check and see if it's the alternate mix. Also, check the intro on "You've Got Me Floating".
2. Someone who owns a P20P disc - please check and see if you have P20P in the matrix. If you do, please check the two things listed in number one.
Once these two questions are answered, I think we will know exactly which Japan disc everyone should look for to track down the alternate mix CD.
Thanks to everyone who contributed to this thread!
The P33P is the first pressing followed by the 20P2.
I don't understand how Jimi could "forget" the precious master tapes of a new album and leave them in a taxi cab.
Oh okay. Thanks for that info. So it appears that the disc I have is the first press based on the matrix info. The art and catalog number on the cd lists a different catalog number.
So I'm guessing that some P20P Axis discs contain cds with P33P in the matrix and use the alternate mix found on the first press. Then maybe some of the P20P discs have P20P in the matrix and do not use the alternate first press?
It would be great to find out if anyone has a P20P matrix disc and which mix is used.
Edit: Just found this info.
The mix on these releases is a variant to the "standard" stereo mix.
Polydor/CD (Ger, U.K.) 813-572-2 (1989); Polydor/CD (Japan) P33P-25023
Uses the standard stereo mix.
Polydor/CD (Japan) P20P-22002, POCP-2020
So I guess what this means is if you are looking for the alternate mix, it can be found on releases with P20P packaging, but you have to check the matrix and see if it's P33P.
I never thought I'd tell someone they may better understand if they take a lot of drugs...
Exactly, but you don't need a lot of drugs, just a little could make you forget that the master mixes are sitting on the seat.
I wonder why the cab driver did not return them to Jimi, if the story is at all true.
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