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Hendrix- Cry of Love 2014 vs First Rays 1997*

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by fooboo, Oct 12, 2016.

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  1. DTK

    DTK Forum Resident

    Location:
    Europe
    He probably does go into Machine Gun, but as they faded it out it can't be too substantial. The Hit Factory takes with GS&R that circulate are just messy. For me, the fact that Jimi never revisisted those recordings or made any formal attempt to record MG in the studio after September '69 says he realized the Fillmore version couldn't be topped. The version of Midnight Lightnin' from July 1,1970 that was released on the Douglas album is quite good and warrants official release in unaltered form. But it's still pretty much a jam, with the "stoop down" lyrics seemingly improvised on the spot.

    There's an earlier take from May, but that's also a jam, with the unrelated (great) rhythm pattern at the front.

     
  2. DTK

    DTK Forum Resident

    Location:
    Europe
    You're not fond of Belly Button Window? I think that's a profound, essential Hendrix tune. He's basically making a statement about abortion, in a humorous manner, but it's quite "heavy". And the riff is great.
     
  3. PacificOceanBlue

    PacificOceanBlue Senior Member

    Location:
    The Southwest
    Agreed. The GS&R sessions were very disjointed, and it is no surprise that Hendrix subsequently chose not to review the recordings. I am not certain that he believed that Fillmore version could not be topped, but he chose to release it, essentially leaving it behind and committing to develop other material. In general, I think it was a very difficult song to arrange, in the studio and on stage; just listen to the four different takes from the Fillmore East, they are all quite different, and a couple of them are a bit disorganized, with the 1/1/70 first show version miraculously coming together in breathtaking fashion. He knew it was the centerpiece of the BoG album, and may have felt there was no reason to devote time to a studio version in the aftermath of the BoG album. Unlike the studio versions of Message Of Love and Power Of Soul which were nearly complete in the winter of 1970, there was not even a working studio master for Machine Gun.

    It is surprising that EH never released a band edit of Midnight Lightning, particularly because it was a song Hendrix was allegedly focused on completing for the First Rays project. It is a noteworthy song from Hendrix's final period of work, and conceivably would have fit nicely on West Coast Seattle Boy or the Purple Box.
     
  4. PacificOceanBlue

    PacificOceanBlue Senior Member

    Location:
    The Southwest
    I like it, but I do not think it was anywhere near being completed. He mixed it, but I tend to believe he would have built it up from there. It is too sparse in comparison to all the elaborate layers of instrumentation he was adding to his music during the summer of 1970. Or perhaps he liked it as a little ditty, mixed it, and was going to shelve it. Who knows....
     
  5. I think the demo quality is part of it's charm. And unlike Three Little Bears, Belly Button Windows has poignant lyrics that actually have a powerful message. So no, I doubt it would have shared the same fate as TLBs. It may have had some additional overdubs and production as it was common for Jimi to over-produce and tweak his songs to death in 69-70.
     
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  6. Piiijiii

    Piiijiii Hundalasiliah

    Location:
    Ruhr Area, Germany
    I tend to believe that a studio version of the Izabella/Machine Gun pair could have sounded like the performance at the Dick Carett Show.
     
  7. raphph

    raphph Taking a trip on an ocean liner…

    Location:
    London
    So are we saying the most recent EH reissue of First Rays is mastered different compared to the 1997 MCA version?
     
  8. Sarah S. The Hendrix Nut

    Sarah S. The Hendrix Nut Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Indiana
    I think it's sparseness fits the song. He may not have been finished with this recording. Maybe he would even have decided to do another take of it. Or he could have decided to completely abandon the song.

    Maybe layers of instrumentation would have gotten in the way of the message, where as everything going on in something like Machine Gun adds to what Jimi is saying in that song.


    From our point of view, looking at it as a posthumous track, I agree with you.
    If Jimi had lived and this came out in this form on his 4th album, opinions might be different.
    I didn't hear the song until 20+ years after his death and I can appreciate it as an unfinished track. Possibly fans hearing this on a new Hendrix approved release may have wondered why Jimi didn't finish it before he put it out.

    I wonder if some of Jimi's tweaking songs was due to being unsure of where he was headed. He talked at one point of a single album that turned into a possible double album. He was working on enough songs to produce much more than a double. I think he may have been buried by his own creativity and ambition. I think he needed a producer to help dig him out.

    In the end, I agree that he probably would not have put it out in this form, but I do think he would have released it. I do think a B-side release might have suited it. If it was on the same single as a popular song, it would have gotten some exposure that an album track may not have.

    Considering what the Beatles put on B-sides, I think single B-sides must have been looked at differently by artists in the 60s as opposed to later on.
    Of course, Jimi was more of an album artist than a single artist.
     
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  9. DTK

    DTK Forum Resident

    Location:
    Europe
    True. He did personally oversee the mastering of the upcoming single Dolly Dagger/Night Bird Flying and talked about it to the press though.
     
  10. fredhammersmith

    fredhammersmith Forum Resident

    Location:
    Montreal, Quebec
    Love your version!
    I would just trade places of the 2 last tracks (Hey Baby is an obvious closer to me) and insert Pali Gap somewhere.
     
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  11. John Fell

    John Fell Forum Survivor

    Location:
    Undisclosed
    The only problem is that Pali Gap was not on any of the possible First Rays track listings left behind and is actually an edit of a longer track.
     
  12. fredhammersmith

    fredhammersmith Forum Resident

    Location:
    Montreal, Quebec
    Maybe so... but it remains unclear isn't it?

    song_index
    Pali Gap
    Released on the "Rainbow Bridge" soundtrack album, the title (invented in 1971 by Jimi's manager Michael Jeffrey) refers to a mountain pass on Maui, Hawaii where Jimi had played for the making of the film. This beautiful Santana-like instrumental apparently grew out of a spontaneous studio jam around The Spencer Davis Groups "Gimme Some Lovin" (just after the recording of "Dolly Dagger"), which Jimi later came back to, laying on overdubs. Juma Edwards on percussion. It would seem that he left it aside and it didn't figure in his shortlist for his uncompleted 1970 studio album. It turns out to be one of his finest works and the most beautiful guitar piece of all time in my opinion. A masterpiece.
    The fact that Jimi went to such lengths to refine the piece would lead us to think that he considered using it for his 1970 album. One of his handwritten lists of possible album tracks shows the mysterious "Electric Lady" with "(slow)" noted after it. Before being baptised by Mike Jeffrey as "Pali Gap" (to associate the instrumental with the film "Rainbow Bridge") the tape box had the song named simply "Slow part". So it is perhaps possible that Jimi was preparing to use this brilliant instrumental for his 1970 album.
     
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  13. John Fell

    John Fell Forum Survivor

    Location:
    Undisclosed
    We do know it was named Pali Gap for use in the Rainbow Bridge soundtrack. Based upon this, I am inclined to believe it was going to be used on the film soundtrack as they were looking for instrumental music to use. However, we cannot be 100% positive. It is a great track though.

    When I compiled my version I was not inclined to include songs that were not on the list because that is what we have to go off of and it is also what Eddie Kramer used to compile the released version.
     
  14. Smokin Chains

    Smokin Chains Forum Resident

    Location:
    Nashua, NH
    I just want to note that it's not my version, but created by soniclovenoize, who creates a ton of cool "Albums That Never Were". He writes a bit about Pali Gap in his blog post with the reconstruction.
     
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  15. fredhammersmith

    fredhammersmith Forum Resident

    Location:
    Montreal, Quebec
    Yes, I did not put the proper link.
     
  16. slane

    slane Forum Resident

    Location:
    England
    He did overdub another guitar part, but I've always thought that since both guitars have the exact same sound as in 'Dolly Dagger' that Jimi probably just left the tape running after overdubbing DD and continued the overdub onto 'Pali Gap'. So I'm not certain that he 'went to such lengths'. Still a great track though, whatever the case.
     
  17. Greenblues

    Greenblues Forum Resident

    Location:
    Cologne, Germany
    I have one further point concerning Kramer's choices when compiling COL and Rainbow bridge. I mean, I know he had intended to put include Dolly Dagger and Room Full Of Mirrors on COL and had to replace them when he was forced to hold them back for RB, but I still think that Kramer may have sensed that Henrix' new material was a little bit lacking in variety, compared to his former albums. Which may have something to do with Henrix searching for a new direction and trying out a certain funked-up approach on many different numbers, possibly knowing he'd have to leave some of them on the cutting room floor in the end.

    Anyway, there were - for example - only a few slow tracks available (even Drifting and Angel required considerable editing and post-production). No blues masterpiece like Voodoo Chile or Jazzy highlight like Rainey Day, Dream Away.

    So when even (the highly outstanding/original) Dolly Dagger and Room Of Mirrors were no longer available he had to look for some special tracks to add variety to the song selection, which may also be the reason why he decided to include Belly Button Window. And it wouldn't suprise me if even Hendrix may have sensed that his album-under-construction was in need of some fresh material/different apporaoch, which may be the reason why he ordered the My Friend masters from Kramer.

    I'd have loved if he'd included some bluesy tracks like the solo Midnight Lightning or some more ballads like Heaven Has No Sorrow in a finalized album we'll sadly never get to hear.
     
    Last edited: Feb 26, 2017
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  18. Greenblues

    Greenblues Forum Resident

    Location:
    Cologne, Germany
    I almost completely agree with you. Maybe with one exception. Hendrix put down serveral really strong versions of Hear My Train a Comin'. Promising enough I'd say for this to be considered as a possible track for the album (take for example the BOG studio recording that ended up on People, Hell and Angels. Does it surpass the Berkeley version? No. But it's a valuable take at the song in it's own right). As I said in my earlier post: A little tad more variety would've benefitted the album.
     
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  19. PhilBorder

    PhilBorder Forum Resident

    Location:
    Sheboygan, WI
    Not familiar with Jimi other than some of his original albums. It seems to me just perusing this and other Hendrix threads that his post humous releases are sort of a mess. Is there any clear or relatively credible source about what Jimi intended with the material that became Cry of Love? is it all just a guess because he was recording and the concept was evolving as it went? Could he have been thinking about two separate releases?
     
  20. Greenblues

    Greenblues Forum Resident

    Location:
    Cologne, Germany
    ... which is why he approached Chas Chandler shortly before his death. And then Eddie Kramer tried to talk him out of taking the tapes to London etc. We all know the story - but it confirms that Hendrix was still unsure about what he'd already archieved.

    As great as much of the Electric Lady material sounds - one could argue that Hendrix may have lost some of the spontaneity needed for a wholly captivating listening experience in some cases, when he overdubbed and redid guitar parts again and again. And as much as I admire Eddie Kramer as an engineer and "enabler" for Hendrix, I sometimes think some of the finally released material, especially on COL sounds a bit sterile - especially when compared to different mixes done by Hendrix himself (In From The Storm, for example).

    Such or similar aspects could've bugged Hendrix and given him second thoughts, when he was staying in London, taking stock of his situation.
     
  21. John Fell

    John Fell Forum Survivor

    Location:
    Undisclosed
    Hemdrix left some notes about a possible track listing but other than that no.

    Side A

    Dolly Dagger
    Night Bird Flying
    Room Full Of Mirrors
    Belly Button Window
    Freedom

    Side B

    Ezy Rider
    Astro Man
    Drifting
    Straight Ahead
    Freedom

    Side C

    Night Bird Flying
    (Drifter's Escape)
    (Come Down On Me)
    Beginnings [scored out]
    Cherokee Mist [scored out]
    (Angel)

    Side D

    This section was blank.
     
    Last edited: Feb 26, 2017
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  22. John Fell

    John Fell Forum Survivor

    Location:
    Undisclosed
    With regards to My Friend, we also know the Hendrix liked to go and revisit tracks. There are numerous versions of Hear My Train A Comin' for example and he even recorded another later version of Stone Free, so just because he asked Kramer about the tape does not mean he was planning on including it. He may have wanted to add overdubs or completely rework the song for another project. He might have even been contemplating using it on the Rainbow Bridge soundtrack since he was also working on that project at the same time, but we don't really know for sure.
     
  23. John Fell

    John Fell Forum Survivor

    Location:
    Undisclosed
    Reconstructing Jimi Hendrix's final album | Positively Blake St. | STATIC AND FEEDBACK | Voices

    Here is another blogger's attempt at the posthumous album.

    1. Ezy Ryder First Rays of the New Rising Sun
    2. Room Full of Mirrors First Rays of the New Rising Sun
    3. Earth Blues First Rays of the New Rising Sun
    4. Valleys of Neptune Valleys of Neptune
    5. Straight Ahead First Rays of the New Rising Sun
    6. Cherokee Mist The Jimi Hendrix Experience
    7. Freedom First Rays of the New Rising Sun
    8. Stepping Stone First Rays of the New Rising Sun
    9. Izabella First Rays of the New Rising Sun
    10. Astro Man First Rays of the New Rising Sun
    11. Drifter's Escape South Saturn Delta
    12 Angel First Rays of the New Rising Sun
    13. Burning Desire West Coast Seattle Boy
    14. Night Bird Flying First Rays of the New Rising Sun
    15. Hear My Train A Comin' Valleys of Neptune
    16. Lover Man The Jimi Hendrix Experience
    17. Midnight Lightning South Saturn Delta
    18. Dolly Dagger First Rays of the New Rising Sun
    19. Bolero West Coast Seattle Boy
    20. Hey Baby (New Rising Sun) West Coast Seattle Boy
     
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  24. slane

    slane Forum Resident

    Location:
    England
    But it doesn't mean that he wasn't planning to include it either.

    Yes, for an album that was upcoming at that time (US Smash Hits).

    You said it.
     
  25. John Fell

    John Fell Forum Survivor

    Location:
    Undisclosed
    However, My Friend was not even on the original track listing for The Cry Of Love. It was only added after Kramer/Mitchell were told hold back Dolly Dagger and Room Full of Mirrors for Rainbow Bridge. It was on the officially released First Rays track listing because they wanted to reissue the entire Cry of Love lp and then essentially add bonus tracks.
     
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