SH Spotlight Hey gang, guess what? Some of your most favorite albums in the world use tape dubs as masters..

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by Steve Hoffman, Jul 19, 2022.

  1. Randy

    Randy Never Complain About The A/C On A Private Jet

    New York City
    Does the same hold true where several parts of a song comprise an entire album side? Thick as a Brick comes to mind as an example.
    Last edited: Jul 23, 2022
  2. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Your host Your Host Thread Starter

    Not usually, no. Just editing.
  3. thrivingonariff

    thrivingonariff Forum Resident

    @cs2003 may be thinking of George Martin, who did (incorrectly) say something like that regarding TNK.
    Onder and lukpac like this.
  4. mando_dan

    mando_dan Forum Resident

    Beverly, MA
    Ahh, that's why Dark Side of Moon sounds like it was recorded in a laundromat.
    Joseph LeVie likes this.
  5. mando_dan

    mando_dan Forum Resident

    Beverly, MA
    Of course, the millionth generation "dub" will identical showing once again why digital is such a, of shoot me, better format for recording, editing, and reproduction. Flame away...
  6. It makes you wonder how many sub generations were required for Bohemian Rhapsody since they say the tape was repeatedly worn through in the original creation.
  7. dixonge

    dixonge Active Member

    This is the first album segue that came to mind. I *guess* there's enough of a break that it could be two discrete songs just played back-to-back off the master? Like, spliced really close together, and recorded on a continuous groove? There's a cover band that spends the winter down here in Mexico that does these two songs back-to-back. First time I heard them do it I was already anticipating it and just about fell out when they went for it. Fan for life!
    Myke likes this.
  8. mBen989

    mBen989 Senior Member

    Scranton, PA
    I heard eight. Also, the transparent multitrack story Brian May usually tells in relation to "Bohemian Rhapsody" is actually about "March of the Black Queen".
  9. dixonge

    dixonge Active Member

    One other seque that I thought of when I read the OP:

    Lovin', Touchin', Squeezin > City of the Angels - by Journey. Or is that just a tight cut?
    Natvecal. and primejive like this.
  10. Peter Mork

    Peter Mork Forum Resident

    That settles it. I'm throwing all my records away. Heck, every time you play them they are getting degraded. Master tapes - same thing. I guess I could just shrug and say, so what? But now that we know, how can any of us get an honest night's sleep?
    mando_dan likes this.
  11. lukpac

    lukpac Senior Member

    Milwaukee, WI
    8-track. For future reference:

    The first Atlantic 8-track session was apparently LaVern Baker, January 27, 1958 (with more sessions on the 28th and 29th). LaVern Baker Sings Bessie Smith:

    LaVern Baker - LaVern Baker Sings Bessie Smith

    Back to (unrelated) crossfades.
    thrivingonariff and Bern like this.
  12. fezco

    fezco Forum Resident

    What if your recording is "All Dub," or what if the master is dub, or dub is the master?

  13. andrewskyDE

    andrewskyDE Island Owner

    There's even a slightly audible tape drop out during the verse 'Goodbye everybody, I've got to go'. Probably cannot be fixed, as it is audible on every release version of Greatest Hits and Opera.
    Plus, the song crossfades to 'God Save the Queen'. You can still hear the gong faintly while the 'orchestra snares' from the other track are coming in. Another gen down from the original master.
    Crimson Witch likes this.
  14. Natvecal.


    Curious too.... like LZ Heartbreaker>Livin' Lovin' Maid sounds like a "tight cut/edit" but, "if" there is reverb decay from Heartbreaker overlapping & then likely masked as well when LLM kicks in (crossfade?) or is it abruptly cutoff when LLM starts (tight cut)? Like the post I quoted is asking, does Journey's LTS reverb decay extend into COTA beginning vocals(crossfade?) or get cut off as next track starts(tight edit?)
    Last edited: Jul 23, 2022
    dixonge likes this.
  15. Natvecal.


    That synth(?) that's rising in pitch throughout Departure you can hear in the background of the first line sung in Ride My See Saw IIRC? I ripped those two as one track for Ipod use as I can't stand segued songs getting cutoff in shuffle mode. Actually the first three tracks as one now that I think of it as they all segue.One of my pet peeves :laugh:
    Last edited: Jul 23, 2022
  16. dixonge

    dixonge Active Member

    Well I finally looked it up. Sounds more like a 'happy accident' than a dub:

    "The two songs "Waitin' For The Bus" and "Jesus Just Left Chicago" were written separately during sessions that were not too far apart. We were in the process of compiling the tracks for the album Tres Hombres, and that segue was a fortunate miscalculation by the engineer. He had been attempting to splice out some blank tape, and the result is that the two come off as a single work. It just seemed to work."
    - Billy Gibbons, from Wikipedia article
    Natvecal. likes this.
  17. nosticker

    nosticker Forum Guy

    Ringwood, NJ
    According to the BR multis that circulate, they did a lot of bouncing within the 24-track master. Those voices don't all exist as discrete tracks. Some do, but there are a lot of block harmonies that are several layers on one track. There's even a vocal bounce on the drum tracks early on(before the drums enter, obviously). They did amazing work, but mixing the vocals must have been nuts.

    CrankSomeFrank, mBen989 and primejive like this.
  18. AndyB

    AndyB Forum Resident

    Exactly- my principal reason for remixing The Delta Sweete from the surviving multi tracks was to eliminate as far as possible the reduction in sound quality you hear on the finished LP which suffered from being bounced down with every crossfade resulting in quite a bit of muddiness- whilst they would have realized there would have been some reduction in quality in doing this they obviously balanced that against the finished effect which was unusual and distinctive. With digital reassembly the clarity of the original recording could be preserved.
  19. Mang

    Mang Forum Resident

    NJ, USA
    If anyone in their salad days recorded their magnum opuses on an old Tascam or Fostex 4-track, you will know this as one of the tricks of the trade.
  20. dwilpower

    dwilpower Forum Resident

    Glasgow Scotland
    Man you ARE brave to argue with GOD!
  21. drbryant

    drbryant Senior Member

    Los Angeles, CA
    This was made clear when they put out the Rolling Stones Japan SACD of It's Only Rock and Roll. FX Copyroom in London was tasked with "flat" transferring the original UK master tapes to DSD. As a result, we were treated to versions of "Time Waits for No One", "Luxury" and "Fingerprint File" that were longer (and in the case of "Fingerprint File", slowed down) than on any other release. It was clear that all other albums released worldwide were cut from a master tape that had been edited for release.
  22. Slick Willie

    Slick Willie Decisively Indecisive

    sweet VA.

    Om my Cars debut WLP promo, the songs don't fade into each other. Plus there's silence between the tracks.
    Would that album be from an earlier tape gen?
    Last edited: Jul 24, 2022
    DangerousKitchen and nosticker like this.
  23. fogalu

    fogalu There is only one Beethoven

    Killarney, Ireland
    Slightly off-topic, but I think I read on this forum somewhere, that the original master of "Please Please Me" has been lost or damaged and that all recent versions have been from a safety copy.

    I'm not sure if it's the mono or stereo and I could be completely wrong.
    Can anyone verify this?
  24. jacksonwalker

    jacksonwalker Forum Resident

    This is the version that I have as well, and it seems that it was the first mix of the album and sent out early to radio stations (for early airplay), at least according to Discogs: The Cars - The Cars

    In my notes field: "Sterling Sound mastering; This is the first mix of the album, and has considerable gaps between songs in place of the cross-fades of the retail LP; with different mixes?"

    In the general notes field: "White label promo with DJ in the runouts. It’s the only pressing with the initials DJ and features some different mixes! This is the first mix of the album, and has considerable gaps between songs in place of the cross-fades of the retail LP."
  25. Russ Gary

    Russ Gary Engineering Legend

    Here's how I edited the cross-fade between "Poorboy Shuffle" and "Feelin' Blue" from CCR's Willy and The Poor Boys album....

    Following the mixing sessions for Willy and The Poor Boys, John Fogerty wanted “Feelin’ Blue” to fade up as “Poorboy Shuffle” was fading out. I accomplished this ‘cross-fade’ by using three perfectly aligned two-track tape machines. The process was as follows:
    The master mix of “Poorboy Shuffle,” was loaded onto playback Machine A, cued up to just prior of the fade out of the song with its left and right outputs patched into two input channels of the mixing console.
    The master mix of “Feelin’ Blue” (cued to the beginning of the song) was loaded onto playback Machine B, also with its left and right outputs patched into two additional input channels of the console.
    The left and right channel inputs of Machine C (loaded with virgin tape for recording) were patched to the stereo outputs of the console and recorded the fade out of “Poorboy Shuffle” from machine A and the fade-in of “Feelin’ Blue” from machine B.
    Once the newly-made recording of “Feelin’ Blue” reached full modulation (just after the song’s opening guitar lick) I stopped recording and using a razor blade, removed the newly-recorded short piece of tape from machine C.
    With my trusty razor blade I removed the section of the fade-out from “Poorboy Shuffle” and the fade-in of “Feeling Blue” and spliced the newly recorded piece of tape from machine C between the two masters. Edit achieved!

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