The Absolute Sound published an interview with the President of the Marantz and Classe brands inside of Sound United. Here's a key quote: What are the greatest challenges facing the high-end industry? Appealing to younger consumers who were born streaming music and have come to expect always-improving, intuitive, mobile-based product experiences. The future discerning buyers in our industry have a set of expectations that the high end has not yet embraced meaningfully, but must. This isn't the first time that theme has come up. As I noted back on 2/8/2021, a Director at Bowers and Wilkins said almost the same thing in another interview with The Absolute Sound: Today’s young consumer is growing up in a world where sound comes from one device and is stored or streamed from one device (the phone). As those customers age they may want to scale their audio systems to meet their needs, but asking them to adopt amps, cables, and so on when they have zero track record or experience of that is a tall order. These two men are execs at two of the biggest hi-fi brands today. It's their job to know where the trends are heading. Reading between the lines, both men seem to feel that yesterday's and today's hi-fi with separate components, cables, and speakers will not be relevant in the future. Massive change is coming (if it hasn't already). Imagine a future where if you mention the word "pre-amp" to someone, they'll look at you like you said "telegraph".
I think they're right. Whatever will the cable manufacturer/assemblers do once this generation of buyers dies off? I have old school type gear (integrateds, turntables, CD and cassette decks, passive speakers. My 21 and 23 year old sons have their phones and earbuds. The ONLY time they listen to speakers is in the car when streaming to the vehicle's audio system.
There will still be young people that want a nice playback system. It's a niche. Still, companies like Vpi and Wilson are thriving.
It's a sad state of affairs, to see those suits kissing up to the ADHD generation which hasn't developed the faculty of attentive listening, but just needs to be "always on" as long as it's fast and convenient. I hope there will always be brands that understand hi-fi is a small niche and which won't chase the broadest market. We need to educate those who don't know how to listen, not become deficient in our listening faculties ourselves. This is a completely upside-down logic IMO. But it's not so strange. These guys think about money. I think about hi-fi and quality listening experience.
Well this is a central question these days and especially for those of us that prefer hard copy media and shift between digital, vinyl, and tape. Have two items to report. First, if you follow the Daily Audiophile as I do, you will have noticed that there is very little product development taking place. New vinyl pres, amps, and speakers keep appearing but a truly new product just doesn't appear. And, overall, there just isn't much volume here. The recent emphasis on historical reviews (from the 70s and 80s) hints at this lack of current activity. Second, I go to the used vinyl/cd/dvd/blu-ray/cassette stores 3 and 4 times a week and the majority of customers I see are young aficionados (less than 30 years old). They are listening to modest systems but this crowd has been initiated (however) and is looking for the best deals they can get -- usually for vinyl, CDs and cassettes. The two quotes supplied above are pertinent but disingenuous. It is the responsibility of these execs to create a market for their products. If they recognize that a crowd has to be reached then it is their responsibility to develop products that generate that linkage. McIntosh seems the least likely to do this based on their product history.
When I was teaching music, listening and concert etiquette was part of the package. I miss having that purpose in life.
I agree. It seem the "quality" of listening is declining. A young guy I worked with played in a band. I asked how, "How many of your friends have ever heard a trumpet, horn, or any other acoustic instrument?" The look on his face was one of dismay. "Not one," he said. Many people are happy just to hear sound without having to actually listen to it. So, only part of their attention is on the experience of listening to music. It doesn't help that the sounds are mostly manufactured and not acoustic. If you've never heard a glockenspiel or a violin or a harp or even a triangle, you might not realize how utterly beautiful the sounds they make are. And if you don't know how beautiful acoustic instruments are, you're not gong to spend money on a system that reproduces all of them as a reasonable facsimile of how they sound in real life. You might instead, settle for 50% of what it sounds like, and not even realize what you're missing. People cannot miss something they never had. That holds true for pretty much everything that exists.
Why is it so difficult to accept change? It's inevitable. It's going to happen. Time for some tough love.
And still no digispeakers from either company. No doubt they are playing catch up as I type. Got phone or tablet? From post #354. "The std equip SHD Studio isn't yet in its cubby, but hiding elsewhere. That's it, as complicated as it gets; you see zero gear aside from speakers and an iPad."
I think the ship has sailed for the kind of pervasive, old school, 'golden' hifi in culture. It is a niche, and has been for awhile. Hopefully hifi will survive with affordable tiers for people who care. But the world has passed this hobby by for the most part. Most people don't know the difference between a transistor and a tube. I don't blame them, this hobby is kind of sadistic and can be maddening plus expensive. But just like other complicated and deep pursuits, payoffs can be worth it. Connecting with music is fundamental for a lot of people. To top it off, the forums where people do turn to participate in hifi communities and connect with the other people in this niche are full of naval gazing, hostility and childish insults. It's not exactly the kind of community that attracts or welcomes new people. If you want hifi to stay alive, relax, take a chill pill and try to have some more fun by convincing people in real life they should put some money into their music system, and into the pockets of artists, because streaming isn't going to sustain the music industry.
Because this change is society abandoning the whole hobby I love, listening intently to whole albums and finding all the deep track gems. It also means the idea of making a quality whole album is gone.
OK , so what's the World coming to: iPhones distributing multi-channel audio/video wirelessly to active speakers/TV.
I'm in the same boat and am not going anywhere. That said, if I don't ever buy another piece of gear I'll be okay. If I'm going to feel sorry for anyone, it'll be my grandson who's been collecting records long enough for me to think it's not just a fad.
Again... I was told in 1998 that 2 channel was dead, home theater was king. Now it's streaming. At least we're back to stereo and music. And not sure if anyone's heard but... it's 2021 and you're more likely to buy a vinyl record today than a CD. So put down the pitchforks. Streaming doesn't have to be a pariah or the bane of critical listeners! Listen to Qobuz streaming through a good digital frontend - it's stunning how good and real it can sound in a well-thought out solution. But, I'm of the mind that technology like MQA does, indeed, threaten our actual niche. It's certainly not welcome anywhere around my gear, regardless of its merits relative to sound quality. It's a terribly slippery slope, threatening to hold music hostage via streaming services. We can teach listening skills, sure, but we also have to teach the old men yelling at clouds that not everyone listens that way all the time. In fact, hopefully most of us don't. There's a huge world of music delivery and digestion out there, far apart from the confines of an isolated listening room. Cars, multi-zone house music, boats, portable headphones - not all require "critical listening." Not by any stretch. But if Marantz and Sony and Apple and some of the massive NON-NICHE brands want to continue to exist, they need to figure out how to pivot to that group and fast. But brands like Cary and Wilson and McIntosh don't necessarily have to. They may support some higher end lines with lower end offerings, but that's what many manufacturers need to do. And these days, there are hundreds of small outfits doing the same sort of thing. Gold Note, Denafrips, Raven, Manley, Merrill-Williams, ClearAudio... the list is enormous. To me, this always comes back to an excuse to throw out the argument of "those damn kids!" It's been happening for generations. And we're all still here, lamenting the generation(s) that comes after us and repeating the same, exact pattern.
I think there is a lot of truth to this, and it also is making inroads to conventional two channel audio. Many people are streaming with Tidal and Qobuz, and the way its done is only a tool. It can be a phone, a personal type streamer, or a computer network. For digital this has become an accepted method of playing music, but I do believe there is always going to be a market for physical media such as vinyl or CD. In the end, the more choices we have the better, and audio companies will have to find ways to integrate streaming audio into their components to keep attracting new owners into the hobby.
Those are two smart executives. You're not going to "educate" people into wanting an old-school experience. Companies that don't appeal to consumers will perish. It's a very rare company that creates a large market. I don't even know how to answer something like this. The condesension here is impressive. Because that's how companies stay in business. This I can agree with wholeheartedly. But I believe it will be a shrinking market, especially with the type of housing that can contain a large system becoming more out of reach every year for that generation.
If they were smart, what we'd really see are smartphones made by Marantz, Classe and Bower and Wilkins and others. Make them aspirational and beautiful. Amazed they haven't thought of this already. They could start by buying up the LG smartphone business, which is up for sale. Gateway devices into a world of better sound, with outrageously great DACs and integration into their high-end hi-fi. Multi-functional phones which also act as remotes, libraries for buying music for streaming, portals to DSD cloud storage. Take back control of their audiences attention. What are they waiting for?
Oh boy as a younger audiophile of the “adhd” generation (who has adhd) and also a digital product manager the resistance to change here is frustrating. What’s missing is that these heritage brands haven’t introduced the right products that bridge the gap between high fidelity and convenience. They also have poor market positioning and lack awareness. McIntosh should be the ultimate achievable aspirational brand, the Rolex of sound. They have the name and the heritage and story for it, but they’re failing to drive awareness and bring new customers in the door with clever solutions. I’m actually going to write up a strategy doc and phone Joel Sietsema of Marantz and chat with him. I’m his market, a high earning tech working millennial with disposable income, I wonder if he’ll take my call. I’ll post my strat doc here when my ADHD calms down long enough to write it .
I agree. Although I went from an iPod and 128 kbps .mp3 files in 2007 to two complete stereo systems in 2021 - both with turntables (1 vintage/1 modern), and one with SACD playback - I suspect I’m more of an exception than the rule.
The above is so true. Beyond just the hostile message board culture (I like to frequent this board the most because it's the nicest I've seen among the non-brand specific boards), the barrier to entry can be so difficult for newcomers... it's everything from very high entry prices to basic equipment/tech understanding. How many times have you explained what a DAC is to one of your friends and only receive back a blank stare? Now picture yourself as someone interested in putting together a good starter system... where can you even go for information? Brick and mortar dealers are going extinct. A lot of the ones that are left still hold on to the old rich guy elitist attitude. (Visit the Lyric NYC thread in here for a good depiction of that.) You'd think there would be a lot of great resources on the web for beginners... there really isn't. (I know - I went through all of this myself in the last 5 years.) Back to the original thrust of the thread... I don't see this trend as dumbing down the hobby as some others have mentioned in here. I took the gist of the quotes in the original post as more manufacturers recognizing they need new entry level products to cater towards both the casual crowd and the budding enthusiasts. The PS Audio Sprout is a great example for this. And there will always be higher end/separate components as long as you still have the hard core crowd. Adding more options at the entry level only serves to create more growth for the upper niche end down the line. It doesn't have to be an either/or scenario. Folks have to keep in mind that large, dedicated music systems started to disappear from Western homes since the 1980s. That's at least four generations of consumers that have never experienced what a great system can be. Of course, that trend was magnified with MP3s and the iPod. Chances are extremely great that anyone born after 1975 literally has no concept of what good sound is.
I seriously doubt they have the money to buy LGs smartphone business. I also feel they would get crushed by the competition. Also the younger "audiophile crowd" is a verrrry small market. I teach HS and most kids these days could care less about sound quality. I bet the vast majority have never even heard a stereo that most of us would consider "worthy".
I think disposable income is a big factor in whether you take part in this hobby as well. Just because younger folks access music through their phones doesn't mean that they don't want a great multi piece system, cost is the biggest barrier in my opinion. There are lots of younger folks who piece together what they can and in the future when they have some financial stability will start to take part in the culture seriously. The 70's and 80's age of the stereo store is long gone, but a new generation of kids love vinyl records and recognize good sound. Lets be honest, they are going to spend $800.00 on a tablet or phone before they spend that on an amp or speakers as those are more of a necessity in modern living.
