Hi-fi execs know that massive change is coming

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by hoffmanuser2020, Apr 14, 2021.

  1. patient_ot

    patient_ot Senior Member

    Location:
    USA
    If the label owns the rights to the recordings, they can do whatever they want. That could mean not releasing the songs/album at all, or yes, pulling them from streaming services. I've heard of many cases of the former, but nothing of the latter, yet.

    However, look to the recent Dwight Yoakam cases if you want to see where things may go in the future.

    Shareholders aren't going to care about this, especially if it's down to a handful of smaller time artists that are no long with the label. The Dwight situation is a bit different though. Not sure offhand who owns a majority stake in his former label.
     
  2. vwestlife

    vwestlife Forum Resident

    Location:
    New Jersey, USA
    Those already exist: the $1500 "THE+RECORD PLAYER" [sic].

    THE+RECORD PLAYER

    [​IMG]
     
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  3. patient_ot

    patient_ot Senior Member

    Location:
    USA
    These things already exist and some of them cost a lot more than $1K. Basically furniture companies taking a common turntable and making them into console type all-in-ones.

    I don't know if someone already mentioned it, but McIntosh had their "lifestyle" turntable:

    McIntosh MTI100 Integrated Turntable

    Not sure how many of these are selling but I don't know too many prospective customers for this sort of thing.
     
  4. dogilv

    dogilv Forum Resident

    I never understand the audiophile future looks bleak mentality. There are more choices of EVERYTHING now than there ever was. I don't see that changing.

    More gear. More music and more choices on how to listen to an unlimited amount of content.

    As far as big consumer mega companies trying to sell a dozen or so different high end CD player models , well... that might be challenging.

    If the Chinese and India high end market develops, then the western yuppies wont even be a blip in the overall market consumption.
     
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  5. patient_ot

    patient_ot Senior Member

    Location:
    USA
    My wife works in the tech industry and it's the same thing at her company. No physical media + headphones. There are a couple of people into vinyl, but a tiny minority. Most are streaming + headphones if they care about listening to music at all.

    I live near a couple of very wealthy suburbs. In one the BB store there closed, well before C-19. Every time I went in there, it was absolutely dead. The longest line was at customer service, where people were returning things they bought online.
     
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  6. drbryant

    drbryant Senior Member

    Location:
    Los Angeles, CA
    Last edited: Apr 21, 2021
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  7. Aura

    Aura Forum Resident

    Location:
    Austin, Texas
    Yup. For the 'vinyl is only for baseball collector types,' we can get even more granular with the data telling the story above: U.S. Sales Database - RIAA

    Check the second graph on the page and then dive into the pie charts for 2020 using the circular button graphic below the chart legend, and then work backwards:
    • Sales volume of all formats is at its lowest level since 1973.
    • Yet, vinyl as a format has more than 3x increased sales since 2017 and 10x since 2010. Refer to quoted post above for vinyl's growth since 1995.
    • CD continues to decline, and based on yearly trends, vinyl will surpass it in as little as 1-2 years.
    • Download Albums are also within striking distance for vinyl to surpass. Year-over-year comparison sales for download albums shows instability (up-down-up down, hovering between 8%-9% for the last 5 years , not a clear trend of growth for download albums).
    But what of Download Singles? Aura, are you blind?

    Caveat:
    Download Singles and Ringtones make up over 80% of current sales.
    Philosophical Slant: Change my mind: This indicates the vast majority of format purchases are not by dedicated lovers of music, those who are not in it for either the long run nor for the playback enjoyment (it's just another disposable purchase), but rather are those who cultishly follow every trend and must be participate in the latest trend, like purchasing the hit song by what's her name - CandiPhatAzz or TwerkyD, or like must-having the fashionable pumpkin spice coffee drink that trends on InstantGroan, or like virtue-signalling a mask selfie at every destination. These types are mostly uninteresting trend followers, and not imaginably connoisseurs of the arts that include musical art, and likely not rugged individualists with high standards, and highly likely, almost certainly, would never be considered as being within the market demographic for hi-fi in the very first place.
     
    Last edited: Apr 21, 2021
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  8. sunspot42

    sunspot42 Forum Resident

    Location:
    San Francisco
    It's ugly. They need to work on the case. The people buying a Crosley would be looking for something retro.

    Eh, not really. Try finding a linear tracking turntable. Or a decent boom box. Or a nice micro system. Heck, even a preassembled rack system of components. A whole bunch of categories essentially don't exist anymore, or they've retreated to the extreme high-end. This is stuff you used to be able to buy at the local department store, making it easy for the average Joe to see - and buy - a pretty decent system and start on the road to buying more audiophile gadgets. That entry ramp is now closed.
     
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  9. sunspot42

    sunspot42 Forum Resident

    Location:
    San Francisco
    Vinyl sold 23 million units in 2020. Sounds impressive...until you realize that Thriller alone moved 33 million units in 1983.

    Comic book sales were also up in 2020. Many of those aren't actually being read, either - just collected. As with records, it's good for the publishers but I'm not sure it's going to do anything for affiliated industries. Although unlike stereo hardware I'm not sure what industries are affiliated with comic books. Maybe Sea Monkey manufacturers...
     
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  10. LeeS

    LeeS Music Fan

    Location:
    Atlanta
    This seems like a glass I half empty take...
    • Revenue matters more than volume for financial health and the charts indicate a strong recovery and way higher value than 1973.
    • The second chart leaves out streaming so it's not a very valuable chart for a wholistic view of music buying.
     
  11. Schoolmaster Bones

    Schoolmaster Bones Poe's Lawyer

    Location:
    ‎The Midwest
    For those curious, here's a picture of my Millennial offspring's Crosley setup:

    [​IMG]
     
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  12. CDV

    CDV Forum Resident

    You even have a matching 1970s-style lowboy dresser to match your receiver. Nice touch!
     
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  13. sunspot42

    sunspot42 Forum Resident

    Location:
    San Francisco
    Not inflation-adjusted they don't.

    1973 revenue: $7.3 billion in 2020 dollars
    2020 revenue: $619 million in 2020 dollars

    Now let's look at units sold.

    1973: 280M
    2020: 22.9M

    And also US Population
    1973: 211M
    2020: 331M

    In 1973, the labels were selling 1.33 albums per-American.
    In 2020, they were selling 0.07 albums per-American.

    That ain't gonna keep the turntable department humming along at many remaining electronics companies. Especially since we know a lot of that vinyl being sold today is purely collectible stuff, like a St. Vincent release in all the colors of the rainbow or whatever, and not really designed to be played by anyone to begin with.

    It is what it is.

    :shrug:
     
  14. sunspot42

    sunspot42 Forum Resident

    Location:
    San Francisco
    (Interestingly, inflation-adjusted revenue for the music industry surpassed the 1973 inflation-adjusted value this year for the first time since 2008 and the depths of the Napster crash and the Great Recession. You can thank streaming for like 80% of that.)
     
  15. LeeS

    LeeS Music Fan

    Location:
    Atlanta
    Again, the volume numbers are not capturing streaming so it's not an accurate comparison. Labels make decent money on streaming but musicians suffer. That's a big problem but a different discussion.

    People's music consumption habits have changed.
     
  16. all24bits

    all24bits Mature Adult

    Location:
    USA
    Scholastic/schools are the big purchasers of comic books (contracts with the publishers). Those sales numbers are artificially inflated due to this. Normal people sales/reading for comic books are down across the board for a variety of reasons. (Manga is UP though)
     
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  17. Spokeless

    Spokeless Roaming Member

    OK, I'll step into this, and you will laugh, too. I did honestly consider this item as a quick update/solution to a mostly-imagined TT + amp gap. And, if I'm being truthful, not to a minuscule degree, as a long-delayed present to my adolescent audio self, who dreamed of this marque - and re-entering the world of glowing tubes - for some years.

    But I blinked, and will likely not. So, a near-miss for me - which may, or may not, bode well for this product's longevity in the market. I doubt any other McIntosh products will ever find their way into my low-turnover stereo "rack" system - they're just not compatible with where audio lies within my life and its priorities at this time.

    Oh - the laughter part? Seriously .. the absence of tone controls :whistle: was the initial turbulence that began disrupting my trajectory toward the MTI100.
    You just had to bring this one up, didn't you? ;)

    The Remler's Accu-Tune (is that a term?) green glow will need to continue to suffice.

    [​IMG]
    '39 Remler
    on Flickr
     
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  18. Speedmaster

    Speedmaster We’re all walking through this darkness on our own

    Location:
    The Netherlands
    I think this is true. There is a sentiment of detaching yourself from the online, digital world with some products. Same goes for something like mechanical watches. Other than the pure luxury aspect, the main selling point is that a mechanical watch is all analog (so to speak).
     
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  19. McLover

    McLover Senior Member

    That ship sailed by 1980 or so. Back as late as 1980. you could buy a good entry Pioneer, Technics, Sansui, or Sony entry belt drive turntable for around $110 street price. With a 1/2" mount and a very good tonearm. A cartridge like a Shure M 75 EJ or M 70 EJ would be doable for around $30. One of these still in good working order today will still be competitive to many a $600 turntable and cartridge. Now do bear in mind, this does not include USB, built in preamp, or BlueTooth.
     
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  20. Matt Richardson

    Matt Richardson Forum Resident

    Location:
    Suburban Chicago
    Sure they did. They just transferred their resources to the BDSM market. They're making a killing now.
     
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  21. Tim 2

    Tim 2 MORE MUSIC PLEASE

    Location:
    Alberta Canada
    Good point. :eek:
     
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  22. sunspot42

    sunspot42 Forum Resident

    Location:
    San Francisco
    We weren't looking at streaming or the broader market. Those numbers were solely for vinyl, and in reference to this discussion it's about how vinyl will (or won't) support the hi-fi audio hardware market. Based on those low numbers relative to '73, the fact a ton of vinyl is being sold as a collectible, and that much of it which is getting played is being spun on things like a Crosley or a $200 Bluetooth turntable, I think it's clear the volume simply isn't there to provide much support for the mid to high-end hi-fi audio hardware market, beyond maybe keeping a few of the remaining dedicated turntable manufacturers like Pro-ject in business.

    Even with turntables, Shure deciding to just shut down their cartridge business and not even bothering to try to spin it off or sell it tells me they see little hope for any sort of growth. So not only does it seem improbable turntables will provide much of a lift to the broader audio hardware market - outside of things like a Crosley - it's not even clear to me if the current players in the turntable market have sustainable business models.

    Heck, Sennheiser is looking for a partner in the consumer audio business, and they're well-regarded and smack in the middle of easily the healthiest consumer audio segment, headphones. If they're looking for the exit, where does that leave conventional hi-fi audio manufacturers of separates, from Japanese conglomerates like Sony and Yamaha to more specialized players like Anthem and NAD?

    :shrug:

    I don't think they're all doomed anytime soon, but the fact so many brands - from Pioneer to Denon to Marantz to Onkyo to harmon/kardon - have been gobbled up by holding companies or conglomerates isn't a great sign. We saw this happen over a decade ago with speaker brands like Energy, most of which eventually just vanished. I wouldn't be surprised to see half of the remaining brands at your local Magnolia - if you even still have a local Magnolia - go the way of the dodo over the next 5 years. Hoping I'm wrong, but...
     
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  23. LeeS

    LeeS Music Fan

    Location:
    Atlanta
    It takes a lot of discipline to do this. :D
     
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  24. Spokeless

    Spokeless Roaming Member

    But killing entails acquiring another victim partner - easier to re-use them.
    Oh - sorry, misread that post. Never mind. :angel:
     
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