I think they fall into the short warranty condition on your list above. They don’t fall into the very expensive area when you consider you get speakers , amp and DAC in one package. They are also easier than most setups for newbies because there is nothing to connect unless you feed it a signal from another device, but many will just stream to them. You don’t need to worry about synergy between components because that was taken into account from the beginning of the design process. My issue is longevity and having more products inside that could take your whole setup down. That being said, for a bedroom setup I wouldn’t mind this type of setup… just not something I need at the moment.
This thread is like the Neville Chamberlain of "Where is hi-fi heading?" Go ahead — accept that good sound is supposedly all about something repellently called "the high end," complain about the pesky youth and their refusal to buy separate pre-amps and amplifiers, sneer at the vinyl revival with claims nobody is listening to the records they're buying, talk about streaming music (now widely available in lossless and hi-res) like it's garbage, and greet the "massive change" that's underway by yelling at a cloud one last time before rolling over and playing dead. I'll admit I could only bear to skim much of this discussion before giving up, but there's a sense of depression and defeat and obsolescence here that feels like an army of surrender monkeys. Not exactly a great advertisement for what being an audio enthusiast can do for a person's outlook! Does anyone have anything inspiring to offer about the fact that the love of music, beautifully reproduced, continues to be one of the shining aspects of human civilization in our time, and isn't going anywhere, despite the disruptions and innovations of changing technologies? I feel better now.
Nice rant! The most inspiring thing I have to say is, every time I watch a video from an audio show from Poland or Asia, the people attending seem to skew substantially younger than the US. And more women too. So, the death of high end, may be a US thing, not a worldwide thing.
Here in the UK, house and rental prices continue to skyrocket, so it's likely for the average person in their 20s or 30s they're either going to be living in a room in a shared house, or living in a small apartment. Younger people aren't going to have the room for a large hi-fi setup or a large collection of physical media; they're not going to be able to give a hifi some volume either. Which is kinda why streaming, headphones and smaller bluetooth/wifi speakers are king at the moment. Headphones for personal, critical listening; a powered speaker for background music.
Room size is why Quad ESL was a distinctly British phenomena, but not much use on other side of the Atlantic.
Interesting thread. The elephant in the room is how younger generations spend their free time. Sitting at home, listening to music for any great length if time is just not how things work today. There is far more competition for that free time than there was just 10 years ago, much less 15-25. That singular fact is the most daunting problem high end audio faces. The second most glaring problem is that high end audio manufacturers aren't nimble on their feet. Too slow to react to changing technologies. And when they do bring in something new it is haphazard. High end audio companies probably can't be nimble enough, ever. So, their future will slowly fade into the talk of yesteryear.
This attitude is part of the problem and also possibly keeping people away from hi-fi forums. Why would any young person want to join a forum where people are crying for them?
One thing I've learnt: hi-hi evolution doesn't necessarely mean better audio quality, but it's more about saving space in your home and saving money too. As much as I love good quality music, I don't think putting huge speakers in you room/living room is doable anymore. Not for most of us in Europe.
As someone that lives in the retail side of the audio world on a day to day basis, I've seen more of the "young" crowd in the last year or two than ever before. I guess I would also likely qualify as someone on the high side of the younger end at only 45. As to overall business, last year was (by far) the busiest year I've had....and this year is falling in close behind that. We are certainly seeing a different type of retail environment, with prolonged wait times for gear. But I think most people in the US have realized that this is (now) a common thing, and have somewhat accepted that it may take a month or 5 to get a particular piece that they want.
Two things...a lot of high end hi-fi brands will be going to the wall as Boomers dwindle. They know the writings on the wall. And a lot of high end hi-fi will be ending up in thrift shops and Ebay as they are cleared out of 'grandpa's old house'. Might be a bit of fun for us Gen-X'ers that are in the know but for anyone else younger...maybe the odd "I picked up this odd thing in a thrift shop!" video on YouTube.
Yeah but it could be because they are the age where running around and going to bars and just generally doing things happens. Then we all get married and settle down a bit. I am 46 and got the bug for this stereo stuff around 33+ when I was at home way more and my dad gave me his old Sansui 5000. Its kind of a domestic things and kids wanna get domestic faster than you think. My son is 22 and has a girl and a cat and acts older than me sometimes. I suspect the same stereo thing that was in my blood from dad and my moms side from Grandpa will hit him at least a little bit.
Idk what the thread is even about at this point. There’s plenty of us in our 20s and 30s into traditional stereo gear, just as there are plenty of boomers who are satisfied with a smart speaker. In fact I got my first decent turntable in college from a middle aged couple that was downsizing to an Alexa. As a whole only a minority of people listen to music on a proper stereo (especially one that’s dedicated to music vs HT). If anything the internet and online marketing has probably been the salvation of the hi-fi industry.
Here is a 45 minute long video of a guy in Singapore, touring an audiophile mall there. This is a full scale mall, with 3 or 4 floors, with quite a few stores per floor, of hi end audio gear. While he doesn't focus too much on the customers shopping, almost every time shoppers are shown in the background in stores, they are a pretty young, with a high percent being women. As I've previously stated, the 'aging audiophile' does not seem to be a thing in other parts of the world, besides the North America, the UK, and a couple of other western European countries.
Just from anecdotal evidence posted on several boards it seems most people that you find here started in the hobby from the early teens to twenties. They the have families and get back into the hobby around forties to fifties. Whether that is a fair representation I don't know, but it certainly seems consistent with what the execs are saying. Regardless of age, the competition for free time is stiffer than it has ever been. Another factor to consider is the type of music that is being produced today. We have entered into a very homogeneous era. ---- The players in the high end audio industry find themselves on a very unique playing field given the diversity of motives from said players. That scenario isn't seen very often.
I have been to that mall in early 2020 before the pandemic was raging. Similar to Hong Kong - a fair number of couples though I have not seen women in those shops alone. I'd like to point out that for the most part, older people have more money so when this industry is saying $15,000 is a "budget system" there is good reason people tend to be 40 and up and usually more up than 40. Also, knowledge - the average person sees audio gear at the likes of Best Buy and maybe the odd boutique store like Bose or B&O so their world of audio knowledge is largely limited to walk-by stores like those. My experience in Asia is that far more people have far more disposable income. A single female colleague here owns B&W speakers and I believe a Rega or Naim amplifier and CD player - those aren't typical items nor are they sold at the big box chains. Well, they are now but not back when she was buying - she had to go to a higher-end boutique shop To give you an example - here is the English website for the big box chain in Hong Kong called Fortress - the exchange rat is roughly $7.5-$7.8HKD to $1 USD (no sales tax in Hong Kong). Compare what they sell at big box chains here vs in the US/Canada For a start the JBL DD67000 on sale now for a mere $509,800 HKD https://www.fortress.com.hk/en/shop/tv-entertainment/hi-fi/c/17?q=:new&sort=price-desc
I haven't read through the whole of this thread, but I can tell you that younger generations are changing how they listen, especially Gen Z. I work in a lot of peoples houses and can see that Gen X are embracing vinyl, turntables, cables and separate audio input/outputs. My experience shows me that Millennials are the ones who seem to prefer the streaming to one device type of set up. So I really don't think it's time to worry. My son ( early 20s ) and my partners daughter ( late teens ) have both gone back to vinyl and real Hifi. Even tapes are being used by younger people and many bands release demo tapes again. My opinion is based on what I see in people's houses and also the people buying vinyl and buying audio gear in stores. This ain't a dying scene !!!!!!!
