Hi-res DSD files vs SACD sound quality

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by Romany, Oct 13, 2021.

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  1. tIANcI

    tIANcI Wondering when the hifi madness will end

    Location:
    Malaysia
    In this context DSD means a downloaded file whilst SACD is the disk.
     
  2. DancingSea

    DancingSea Forum Resident

    Location:
    Maui, Hawaii
    I have been a very long ways around this particular bush. With the caveat being "for me", which is better depends upon many factors. Without attempting to cover every possible factor, I'll just share my specific journey. Using a computer as a music server, no matter how erudite the setup might be, is not going to yield optimal results. If you're after the A+ game, it takes either a high quality SACD player, or expensive dedicated music server. The computer is the devil when it comes to audio no matter how many gizmos you implore to ameliorate a computer's limitations.

    Once in that somewhat rarified air, either a SACD player or dedicated music server can provide excellent sound quality.

    As for DSD vs PCM, both can be great. Both can be terrible. Depends upon the mastering. One plus of SACD's is that audiophile labels like MoFi or Analogue Productions (and the Japanese labels) often put effort into finding the best original master because they need to satisfy their finicky customer base. But with only about 10K SACD's albums in existence, it's somewhat of a stark landscape.
     
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  3. Omarstringer

    Omarstringer No One You’d Know

    Location:
    Dallas
    I have had both and prefer playing in a PC hardwired to amp.
     
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  4. shug4476

    shug4476 Nullius In Verba

    Location:
    London
    My observation would be that an SACD player tethers you to the DAC in the player (with a few exceptions - but on the whole this is true).

    DSD files allow you to choose a DAC. My Chord DAC is significantly better than the DAC in my SACD player.

    However, that variable aside, they should in theory sound the same assuming the equipment is consistent.

    There is obviously a never ending debate about whether all 1s and 0s sound the same and on that basis a good quality transport might sound better. It depends who you ask!
     
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  5. C.Ludwig

    C.Ludwig Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Kentucky
    Tethered? Where have you been in the last decade? Stereo as well as 5.1 SACD/DSD is enjoyed now via simple HDMI connection from an inexpensive Sony UBP Player to most any AVR or Pre-Pro.
     
  6. Kyhl

    Kyhl On break

    Location:
    Savage
    Tethered?
    Many people rip their SACDs to DSD files for playback through a DAC of their choice.

    I use a DAC that converts everything to very high upsampked DSD, even PCM. It doesn't play PCM natively. From there I've added HQPayer to upsample everything (PCM or DSD) to DSD128 using the upsampling filters that I like before it goes to the DAC.

    Music has never sounded better through my system. Now I have plans to upgrade the NUC so it can upsample to DSD256 in front of the DAC. Then swap to a different DAC.

    Tethered to a player? It's all just moving data around.
     
    Last edited: Oct 15, 2021
    C.Ludwig likes this.
  7. shug4476

    shug4476 Nullius In Verba

    Location:
    London
    With very few exceptions, if you are interested in hifi then piping a digital feed into AV kit is not the best way to go about it.
     
  8. C.Ludwig

    C.Ludwig Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Kentucky
    Who says? I route SACD from a cheap Sony UBP Player via HDMI to a cheap Marantz NR1200’s DAC and it sounds on par to to SACD from my Sony DVP-S9000ES, as well as my OPPO-205 to a Sony TA-P9000ES, or DSD downloads to my Parasound P6.
     
    Last edited: Oct 15, 2021
  9. shug4476

    shug4476 Nullius In Verba

    Location:
    London
    I am glad you are happy with it but this tells me more about your ears than the quality of your equipment.
     
  10. marcb

    marcb Senior Member

    Location:
    DC area
    It depends upon the DAC’s being used.

    Both with DSD to DSD and DSD to PCM comparisons. Drawing conclusions about the possible minute differences in sound - without considering the most variable part of the chain - is a fool’s errand.
     
  11. DancingSea

    DancingSea Forum Resident

    Location:
    Maui, Hawaii
    I went this exact route and reached the same conclusion. Music never sounded better! Then I got the Marantz SACD 30n and began playing physical discs. I was stunned at how much better it sounded than my computer HQPlayer rig. It was not close. Haven’t fired up the computer HQPlayer rig since.
     
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  12. Romany

    Romany Active Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    New York
    Good to know! OPPO players are really overpriced at this point and it looks like you can still find this Sony in a decent shape on EBay. Do you know if it will play DSD files loaded on USB flash drive?
     
  13. C.Ludwig

    C.Ludwig Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Kentucky
    This unit is current and it will play DSD files on a thumb drive.
     
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  14. dwilpower

    dwilpower Forum Resident

    Location:
    Glasgow Scotland
    I've just taken delivery of my Marantz SA-10 SACD Player after a LONG wait thanks to Covid, BREXIT & snafu in the Suez Canal! Ordered back in May! The sound quality is sublime. It really is a whole new listening experience. All I know is my ears are working fine and what I hear is the best ever. Do I need to measure it scientifically? Hell no! Listening to music is so much more than technical data and mathematical formulae. It's an emotional, spiritual experience. Each session is unique. I just lay back and enjoy the experience for what it is, I let the sound paint pictures in my imagination and take me out of this world for an all too brief period.
     
  15. C.Ludwig

    C.Ludwig Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Kentucky
    My post tells you only my experience with the concept.
     
  16. Ham Sandwich

    Ham Sandwich Senior Member

    Location:
    Sherwood, OR, USA
    The difficulty with comparing the sound quality of PCM vs DSD is that so much depends on the DAC that you're using to do the comparison with. Some DACs are really good with PCM and not so good with DSD. Some DACs are really good with DSD and not so good with PCM. And then there are DACs that can only do PCM and rely on software conversion to play DSD. The quality of the playback will depend on the quality of the software conversion from DSD to PCM. Some software can do really well, other software will do poorly and sound like mush. Unfortunately the software that does really well is also really expensive and designed and marketed for mastering engineers.

    Is DSD better than PCM? Depends on the source recording and depends on the DAC used to play it back.
     
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  17. Jerry James

    Jerry James Rorum Fesident

    I purchased a used Marantz SA-10 a couple weeks ago, and am blown away by the sound, especially when playing SACD's. At the same time, I also decided to try playing files, etc., which I had never done before. I purchased a second hand Esoteric N0-5 and an iPad, and got a subscription to Qobuz and also purchased a hard drive loaded with over 18TB of albums, including tons of DSD rips. I found the Marantz won hands down playing the same material when compared to either Qobuz or the hard drive. The streaming/hard drive sure is handy and easy, though.
     
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  18. DancingSea

    DancingSea Forum Resident

    Location:
    Maui, Hawaii
    As a new Marantz convert (SACD 30n), my experience mirrors yours. My only disappointment with moving away from streaming/ files is the ease of using Roon. Would love to see someone take one of these Marantz reference transports and figure out what you'd have to purchase to make streaming/ files sound comparable. I'm curious what it would take. Likely a very expensive experiment, would likely have to be a dealer.
     
  19. jusbe

    jusbe Modern Melomaniac

    Location:
    Auckland, NZ.
    Your 30n has four digital inputs (2x optical, coaxial and USB). Would any of these connect to your streamer?
     
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  20. Jet Age Eric

    Jet Age Eric Forum Resident

    Location:
    SIlver Spring, MD
    I felt the same (too smooth, no punch) for a long time until I realized my amp was converting my DSD to PCM. Having changed my settings, I think I prefer DSD (but I still love hi-res PCM). -E
     
  21. Tone?

    Tone? Forum Resident

    Location:
    San Francisco
    how can an amp convert to PCM?

    I think you mean your DAC?
     
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  22. Jet Age Eric

    Jet Age Eric Forum Resident

    Location:
    SIlver Spring, MD
    Ok: the DAC in the amp. :) It's a receiver, not a power amp, so it encodes, decodes, processes, etc. -E
     
  23. Tone?

    Tone? Forum Resident

    Location:
    San Francisco

    So you are listening to a native DSD file and your DAC inside your amp is converting it to PCM?
     
  24. DancingSea

    DancingSea Forum Resident

    Location:
    Maui, Hawaii
    Yes, and I've done so. I have a MircroRendu 1.4 w/ Sbooster power supply. That connected over the network to a 2020 Mac Mini running Roon and HQPlayer. The mR connected to the SACD 30n. All of that functioned quite well, but the sound quality can not compete with the SACD 30n playing physical CDs and SACDs. The difference was a revelation. Like using two different stereos.

    The SACD 30n can have a hard drive connected directly to it, thus eliminating the Mac, streamer and network from the equation. In that setup, no Roon, would have to use the comparatively feeble Marantz HEOS app. Have yet to try that arrangement to see how it compares to physical discs. But it's on the to do list!
     
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  25. jusbe

    jusbe Modern Melomaniac

    Location:
    Auckland, NZ.
    I hear you.
     
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