Hi-Res, High End Hardware and Old Ears

I recently took a hearing test along with some of my contemporaries. Understanding that the ability to hear higher frequencies diminishes with age, I wanted to see if it was true. And apparently… Survey says yes! Given this, what does it say about Hi-Rez streaming, very expensive hardware dedicated to audio files etc. when a good part of the benefit of these technologies would be to theoretically enhance these upper registers? I know there have been many debates about whether a lot of the hardware, cables (oh Lord the debate on cables) matter and now with the likes of Amazon HD having Ultra Hi-Res tracks… What do the rest of you say?

 

I'm with you!! Go for the midrange.

 

Your information is incorrect. The benefits of hi-res are not exclusive to high-end frequencies at all but are to provide better musical resolution across the whole spectrum. Unfortunately, that doesn't matter if the mastering sucks or if the provided source for said mastering sucks as well (e.g. 3rd-generation tape).

A lot of things have to come together. Great system, great mastering from a great source, from a great mastering engineer, played for someone who has the ability to recognize the differences, from material that actually benefits greatly from the hi-res treatment. Well-recorded music is one thing but albums like Layla are a muddy mess that hi-res couldn't possibly save.

Additionally, the amount of hearing damage over decades changes dramatically from person to person. Someone in construction who didn't use hearing protection for most of his life versus an accountant who wore ear protection to concerts would yield drastically different results in their respective hearing tests.

 

That's fine and dandy. We get old, but what exactly do you think you're missing on? How much loss of actual music are you actually not hearing? Sure you've lost some frequency range. There is actually very little music in popular music above 10kHz.

 

There are a number of sites on the Internet that allow you to stream sweeps and check your hearing. I do this regularly and as an old guy, have relatively little perception over about 14K.
Nonetheless, have no trouble in hearing the improvement that high-res files make and the difference is often in the "24" and not the "96." The bit rate offers advantages that are not frequency related. Very high rates offer noise reduction in the downward conversion that you will hear, regardless of range.
DON'T FORGET to clean your ears regularly with an ear syringe and liquid -- leave the liquid in for at least 5 minutes with the head sideways. This makes a dramatic difference for me.
AND ALSO, yes, stop operating jack hammers! This is very important! (LOL).

 

Well I signed up for Amazon HD so that I would have the UHD tracks. I got a node 2I which is one of the few pieces of hardware that actually work with UHD tracks. I have my little 20 something cousin over and he’s looking at me cross eyed. Trying to a/b between other streaming services, and CDs. I wish I had a league of gentleman from this forum to join me in what seems to be quite a trivial pursuit!

 

Also because of the impact of Additive and Subrative interference even if you can't technically "hear" the upper frequency's, Hi-Res can still be an improvement.

 

Bang on the mark!
It is important to remember that we perceive sounds through the frequency scale in a logarithmic sense. So 10 to 20 kHz is the equivalent range of 100 to 200 Hz.

 

Always wear ear plugs every time you go to a concert or live show.

 

That graphic completely disregards synths which can go from the lowest lows to the highest highs.

 

Benefits of high-res can be heard in the midrange and even the bass. High-res isn't really about being able to record frequencies above 20kHz that only bats can hear. It's about better capturing mids and imaging and the sound of the room and space.

One factor that I find important to me in hearing benefits of high-res is how well the recording and playback system can allow me to hear when absolute polarity is flipped. High-res makes it easier for me to hear that the sound changes when absolute polarity is flipped compared to CD resolution. Flipping absolute polarity affects things like how the bass seems to fill or load the space, how well bass sounds layer or separate, how well midrange instruments and sounds layer and separate, affects how well the imaging is. None of that has anything to do with frequencies above 20kHz being present. It's all about good high-res recording and playback doing less damage to phase and timing compared to CD. Better digital filters that move the damaging things in the filters out beyond the hearing range.

That's my theory. And what I've been running with to guide my gear and playback and recording preferences. I'm a headphone listener. My headphone preferences are headphones and gear that allow me to hear absolute polarity to at least some degree. There are some expensive headphones and gear out there that don't let me hear absolute polarity. I try to avoid that gear and focus instead on the gear that does. The gear that does also ends up being the gear that allows me to hear a difference with high-res. The gear that doesn't do that ends up making it very difficult or impossible for me to hear a difference between CD and high-res.

 

I have some pretty severe hearing loss, but I swear I can still tell a difference between a superior source and a lesser one. Perhaps it's not all just frequency range, but other factors enter into it. I prefer not to worry too much about it and enjoy the music.

ETA: Ham touched on this in the post just before mine.

 

Listen through the best equipment that you can. Quality makes a big difference even if your hearing isn’t that great you’ll still get more enjoyment from your music.

 

You'll hear much, much more of an improvement in sound quality if you start to experiment with different kinds of eq. Get your hearing test results. Make a target eq curve in which you add back in half of your losses. So, if you measure down 12dB at 8kHz, add 6dB at 8kHz. Start from there. Or just do some random experimentation with using some kind of readily available treble boost.

But, be prepared. The amount of boost you need may make the music unbearable for the spouse or the dog. I had to start using headphones.

This treble boosting doesn't work for some people. They have gotten so used to the non treble boosted sound of every day life, that adding treble sounds unnatural. For me, it was more like putting on a pair of glasses. I can see without my glasses, but I know that what I see with my glasses on is better.

 

Hearing loss and ability to critically listen are two separate issues. If you’ve learned how to listen and know what to listen for, critically, just turn it up. And if you have the 4ooo hz “musicians dip” just add an eq to correct for your hearing measurements. “Good ears” don’t go away due to hearing loss... just need to make adjustments

 

I'm not a fan of EQ for the type of listening where you're tying to hear absolute polarity and the benefits of high-res. For that type of listening the EQ does more harm than good.

 

Do you have significant high frequency hearing loss?

 

This has been my experience as well. Some higher resolution versions sound much smoother and less fatiguing. Others, not so much. a good nights sleep and lots of water helps too.

 

Some. My ears are older than my age. Always have been since elementary school. Yet I'm over 50 now and can still hear benefits of high-res. While young audiophiles who can hear mosquito tones can't hear or recognize any benefit to high-res.

The problem with analog EQ is that it shifts phase. The problem with digital EQ is that it resamples. Often using a quick and dirty easy to calculate resampling method that washes away the benefit of the original high-res source.

 

I cannot comment wrt Amazon HD, but I use Tidal through a Node 2i on my main rig and the MQA tracks are easily identifiable... In fact, there was such an improvement that I also picked up a Firefly Red for my laptop and now use Tidal on my desktop as well through headphones or laptop speakers and I love all types music so much more than before subscribing.

 

My hearing is checked annually. For a while now, my upper limit has been 12k. Some tinnitus, too. So I know I'm not hearing everything there is to hear. Despite this, my ears are still quite sensitive to detail and quality. I wouldn't go spending a ton of money on higher-gear at this point, though.

 

I’ve run into some 40th and 50th Anniversary titled re-masterings and some re-mixing that are really well executed. It took a real good ear but I haven’t seen Re mastering credits.
I’m just learning how good Tidal is and they seem to be progressing with titles.

Hey Tidal, You’ve replaced my hard copy universe.

 

Don't trust hearing tests to tell you if you hear or don't hear high frequencies in music...PERIOD! Here's why...

Music is a relationship of sound, just like seeing lights and darks in an image. Some are subtle, some very pronounced. The differences and contrast are what you hear/see and can appreciate. Something has to be quiet so something else can be heard. No one is meant to hear high pitched sounds in music. They're meant to hear the differences in textures that allow you to hear what sounds like a high pitched tone.

There is no A/B'ing this when a person listens to music as one overall sound texture.

Listening on headphones tell me if you can hear the sound of the room "reverb" slight echo fade out of the sustained high pitched trumpet screech when it goes silent for a tiny second before it continues on with the song.



If you can't hear the subtle reverb, your headphones aren't of good quality because the reverb isn't high pitched. It's an echo of the high pitched screech trailing off after it suddenly stops. If you can hear this then you have good headphones and good enough ears to appreciate music.

This is my point about sound relationships and contrasting textures that have nothing to do with hearing tests.

 

My speakers are Linkwitz LX521. Active crossover and multiple power amps, one for each driver. So it is easy to disconnect everything apart from the tweeter (crossover frequency 7.5kHz). And in agreement with the musical range image above, it is surprising how little information there is at high frequencies.

 

That just sounds nasty. The high pitch nasty stuff is the compressor and limiter kicking in hard. Then when they stop playing the compressor and limiter stop compressing and limiting. And for the brief instant after that you can hear a shortened room echo. The short room echo doesn't sound high pitched because it isn't affected by the nasty sounding compressor and limiter settings. Wow that sounds nasty. It's not the sound of music. It's the sound of nasty distortion. Yuck. Tune down the compressor and limiter and maybe there's some music.