This thread makes it clear that high-end audio is defined by perspective: how much you make, spend, devote to luxury items, et al. Another perspective is the driving force behind the buying impulse. Is it status? Fine. Is it "better than what I've got? Fine. But the approach I use is different. What is the musical goal? Right now my musical goal is the investigation of the relative quality of pre-recorded R2R tapes from the 50s through 70s. Was able to purchase 85 of these from an estate sale, all classical, that are in pristine condition and reflect the general types of 7 & 1/2 ips tapes available at that time. Are they better than mint vinyl? How about the best classical CDs produced during the glory recording days from 1995 to 2010? Am borrowing an Otari mastering deck from my studio for this investigation but would buy in an instant a quality R2R deck for permanent use in my SS. Would pay reasonable money for this, say $5-10k, an amount that reflects up to 10 times what I did pay for decks back in the 70s (adjusted for inflation) but there are no modern machines available save a small number of very, very high-end decks available after long waits and that come with other issues. Cannot call up a company, order a deck, and get in within the month. Secondly, would purchase in an instant a high-quality Dolby tape decoder for the several Dolby pre-recorded tapes and find that these, too, are largely unavailable. The SR/A professional decoders I use in the studio will not work with Dolby B. So the best I was able to find was one I had and remember from the 70s -- a Teac AN-80. Modest indeed and cost through EBay the handsome sum of $130. For this analog musical goal, high-end buying power is limited. Most of the "silly money" equipment I preview through Daily Audiophile and Axpona reviews is for TTs, phono pres, amps, and, especially, cables and speakers. The few categories available speaks to the nature of audiophile equipment these days and you can draw your own conclusions as to how this paints the relative health of the field. BTW, have been thinking of creating a thread describing my assessment of this type of R2R medium and would benefit from any comments provided here as to whether it would be found valuable to the SH populace.
Are you plugged into the tape-"head" community? The reason I didn't go reel to reel- isn't the hardware, it's the "software." I'm less interested in hearing the audiophile warhorses than broadening my range of music-- thus, I'll get spendy on early '70s private label or small imprint soul/spiritual jazz. Listening to "Dark Side" or LZ II on tape is fun but isn't worth the trouble for me. There simply are no tapes for a lot of the obscure older jazz I'm exploring.
If I had the $$$$$$$, I'd certainly entertain the notion of owning a high-end system. A few of such systems that I've heard almost had me in tears, they communicated the musical intent of the recording so well. My own definition of high-end audio: any components that I can't afford.
Yes, used that community a great deal and they were extremely helpful when I was developing my studio machines. No longer visit the site. This project is a comparative one devoted to finding out whether pre-recorded tapes are worth pursuing for listening quality. Yes, they are hardly available, and one reason why is because the dealers I work with take them from estate sales for their own use and do not make them available for retail sale. This points to their relative quality. An audiophile I deal with told me he had 1200 R2R pre-recorded tapes and that is the largest collection I know about. You are right that there are relatively few available. But the collection I purchased covers all of the major orchestral works and several of the performances (esp on Mercury tapes) are the best I have ever heard. Have mint copies of the famous RCA Kabalevsky 'Comedians' 1957 offering in vinyl, R2R tape, and modern CD. Have been comparing them one after another and the results are interesting. We take for granted these days that the audio world is always moving forward, getting better and better -- digital recording, playback and class D amps. Some of us remember (and used to play) pipe organs then heard the difference with electronic organs and, now, with midi substitutes. The sound did not get better. But the weight became a lot less...
I am not sure if has been used yet in this thread, but I've seen it here and on other audio forums before, but the claim that rich people buy high end audio because it's s status symbol, or they are showing off, has never made sense to me. Cars, watches, expensive clothes, I can understand the claim. Rich people go into public driving their Ferrari's or Bentleys, , wearing their Patek Phillipe or Vacheron Constantin watches, dressed in their Zegna suites, and everyone can see their displays of wealth, and even understand the allure. And the weird thing is, not too many people look at buying these expensive things as strange. Spend $300K on a Ferrari, and a large percentage of the population will be envious, spend the same on an audio system, and the same people will think they are a bit nuts. Who exactly is a rich person that spends loads of money on a high end system showing off their wealth to? More people will see them driving their Ferrari from Beverly Hills to Santa Monica in 30 minutes it takes, than will see their high end system in an entire year. Not only that, the vast majority of people will not even be interested in the high end audio system, but most of them will want to sit in the car, go for a ride, look at the engine.
Exactly. I'm always bemused by the claims by some non-audiophiles and some audiophiles - ones who ridicule high end audio prices - that so many audiophiles are buying their gear for "status" - based on how they will be perceived, rather than just friggin' being in to audio gear and wanting something in particular. I've been in the hobby for decades and have yet to meet an audiophile, whether they own modest or very expensive gear, who are buying "just to impress others." Every audiophile I know owns their gear out of a passion for sound/high end audio, and their gear represents their tastes. I mean, take myself. I own some gear that is crazy expensive by non-audiophile standards (and even by the standards of some audiophiles). E.g. Joseph Audio Perspective speakers, CJ amps, Transrotor turntable etc. The idea that I'd be buying this to "impress others" is ludicrous. For one thing, most people I know don't give a damn. I'd be closer to embarrassed by what I paid rather than boastful! Or to my few audio buddies? WTF? Why the hell would I scrape for money so I can buy a piece of gear based on WHAT SOMEONE ELSE THINKS OF IT? Like "I sure hope my pal likes this gear and is envious, even if I don't like it!" It's just bizarre to me, and it doesn't make any more sense if your port that to someone in a higher tax bracket then me. Why would they seek to impress with the type of stuff most people don't care about, even think may be a bit crazy? How many audiophiles do they know who they have to "impress" with their expensive purchase? And if they DO know enough audiophiles who would be impressed, that already tells you it's someone who in all likelihood is really in to high end audio, which is why they congregate with other audiophiles. And the reason they are in to is essentially the same as why I am in to it, or someone who has a less expensive system. This stuff really turns our cranks, and what we get tends to be a result of what we can afford. Are there *some* people out there buying an ostentatious high end system? I'm sure. There's always going to be exceptions and some niche in that way. But there really is an annoying default used by many who want to poo-poo high end audio prices, where they fall to facile pop-psychology like "it's about their ego" "it's about making up for their small ***** size" "it's about showing off." This is often just a failure to consider the situations and goals of other people (e.g. someone with the money and passion to buy an MBL or Wilson or whatever set up), are just as rational and honest as the person casting aspersion.
Guess it must be a sign of the times. A beggar knocked on our door last night and asked if we can spare any amplifiers.
Only a handful of people have seen my system. It's never a topic of conversation in my circle of people. My brother gets it..... he also gets a lot of hand me downs. My girlfriend kind of gets it but she has hearing loss , so how can she really get it? I fly under the radar in all aspects of life. I definitely do not buy gear as a status symbol.... Im T shirts and denim 7 days a week.. These forums are the only place I talk about audio
Man, there is an absolutely stunning old (early '60s) Alfa at Fantasy Junction in Emeryville. There was a guy who used to come to Limerock (a pretty famous old track in Conn. that was like a driveway- pretty narrow) that drove one of those big pre-War Alfas. It was fun watching him wrestle that giant steering wheel in that big old beast of a car. Those thing are now unobtanium to mortals, but real people used to own some of these cars- they were tired old racers (the cars, not the drivers) and didn't become crazy money until much later. Now, forget about it. (said with Jersey or Lon-Guy-Land accent).
I trust you asked him what speakers he was going to use it with before pulling something out of the garage...
Most people I ever discuss audio with are people in the music business or audio professionals and course also on line mainly here. Most other people I know are totally clueless on the matter and don’t give a hoot about audio.
Yes, I agree for the most part no one cares. But sometimes someone does and you spend a few hours listening while enjoying your favorite adult beverage
So many of the comments above reflect a cultural change -- music's become less important in our society. Effort=Importance. When something requires no effort (listen to anything on the Internet free of charge and with no equipment save your phone) then it can't have real value, can it? Got to work to make analog sound good and even though it might blow digital away, most could not spare the effort or time. Music has less value than visual arts and, so, those who spend time pursuing the best in sound reproduction must be misdirected, right? As a music historian can stress that cultures tend to move back towards music in the middle of the century. Only 30 more years or so...
Then its an old tube amp I suggest. Get rid of that dog and free up the space for some new gear replacement. Whenever I give away a piece I think "more space, thank God." Now I can fill that with a current unit than can be upgraded. Its easier than buying yet another home.
Yes, it’s quite gratifying when people truly appreciate your efforts even though they are few and far between.
If I had the funds, I would definitely be knee deep in logistics of building a massive music room, flying in the correct people & custom in every sense of the word. I would apologize to no one for such behavior as my family knows I'm music crazy & would expect such things. Perfectly content with what I got but I could go wayyyyyyyy over the top given different circumstances. It's all great to me , cheap systems to crazy of the crazy,.. doesn't matter as I love music & enjoy gadgets that reproduce it.
I dunno . . for me as a recording studio owner it seems really weird that 'some' people's turntables alone in a second bedroom or living room actually cost more than say the Studer A820 / A80 or / Otari MTR analog multitrack recorder (those models are off just the top of my head) and let's say the Ampex ATR-102 analog mix down deck combined that many of the actual records they are listening to were recorded on. Not to mention the amps and speakers in 'some' people's stereo cost a hell of a lot more and are obsessed about more than the actual amps / speakers the records were mixed on . . same with cables etc. At what point does it become clear that the source is not going to become magically $$$$ proportionally better than the original source no matter how much dough, butcher blocks, RCA dogs, speaker cable lifts, power cables etc etc one feels they need to buy. Yes, mastering guys can help a fair amount with some higher end gear but even they can only do so much to the original source that decisions were made on. WE don't even obsess about gear as much as some guys (dare I say the silly "audiophile" word?) with their high end stereos do. Knock yourselves out and spend all you want and stress out about it all I just find it funny AND a little strange.
Not as weird as omitting how much an equivalent deck to the Studer A820 would cost new these days or failing to consider that on the second hand market there was one in Cannuk audio mart that sold used for 13000K US or there about, another on ebay listed originally for over 50K that sold for an undisclosed offer that would not have been exactly cheap. How many people have in their second bedroom a TT of that value, let alone the ancillary equipment? I think your exaggeration value is in line with current prices. Do you have a StuderA820 for sale at less than the TT some people have in their second bedroom? List it here you might get some buyers.
First of all, many recording studios don't care about things like sound staging and other details of reproduction cables and the like help, they're just there to churn out a product (or they wouldn't brick wall compress what they send out the door to death.) Second, audiophiles are well aware of the laws of diminishing returns, and yet in talks with some of the people who worked on them, many of those who worked on albums had no idea as much musicality and magic if you will was captured on those tapes and LPs as audiophile equipment is capable of extracting from them. I'm not just talking about audiophile remasters, but rather just a vanilla Reprise copy of a Sinatra album. They couldn't hear it as the studio gear they had didn't reproduce it, but now they're stunned. Best conversation I ever had, actually. Plus of course inflation; let's see what a completely refurbished A820 would cost in 2022 dollars. In short, high end audio is about extracting the most you possibly can from the music carrier we have available. Which is why some in fact do buy refurbished ATR-102s or $40K decks from United Home Audio to play $500 reel-to-reel tapes from The Tape Project or Acoustic Sounds: Machines | The Tape Project
There is an A827 on Reverb for $10,500 / another for $13,500 . . . Otari MTRs can be had for much less. There is an Ampeg ATR 102 half inch for $12,500. I AM talking about used prices, which is what is IN studios making records people are playing in their homes, obviously my point. So let's say that adds up to $25 grand for a high end multitrack and mix down deck. Are you telling me there aren't people with $25,000 turntables??
