Hip-Hop Help!

Hip-hop help

Taken from another thread re: hip-hop/rap:

I'm going to take this opportunity to pontificate on some stuff. At the end of this post/thread, I hope to at least stimulate some thought. If I can get a couple of people to open-mindedly listen to some music, great. If a couple actually like it, wonderful.

I'll straight out that I consider the advent of hip-hop to be the single most important musical thing in the past 25 years, for better and worse. As a music lover, I prefer to focus on the "better," and let the cynical mass marketing machine and its pundits focus on the latter.

The key thing to keep in mind about this or any other "new" music is, like anything in life, one's own mentality. Some people are perfectly content to re-tread their old favorites, resting on nostalgia and familiarity. Many audiophiles insist only on dusting off their first-pressing German Beatles 45s or relishing the "glory days" of the [insert favorite decade before 1980 here]. That is perfectly fine- whatever makes you happy. I, personally, find that mentality anathematic to my mental make-up as a music lover. I need to explore and understand as much as I can afford to (figuratively and literally ). This thread is more geared to those types of people.

Like many music "snobs," I pick and choose the select, small proportion of Big Popular Music I like while exploring the underground, inside, or less played-out elements of music. As a jazz fan, I know what it's like to live outside the mainstream and wouldn't trade it for the world.

Not all that is popular is crap, and not all that is crap is popular.

Also keep in mind that to me, all rock is, to some degree, pretty much a joke. I still love what I love, but when you look at the cliched riffs, the doofy hairdos, the videos, the celebrity, the naivety, I simply learned to take it for what it is and enjoy the music that I enjoy. I have very little faith in "authenticity" or "seriousness" in rock in general, and take it on an artist-by-artist basis. This means I will agree with a lot of superficial criticism of hip-hop, but put it in the context of rock/pop in general and not glorify the old at the expense of the new.

So how does this all apply to hip-hop? Here are a few rappers I don't like:
P-Doody (or whatever the hell he's calling himself), Nelly, 50 Cent, probably anyone that will ever appear at a Superbowl half-time show or Michael Bay directed action flick soundtrack, etc.
Now that we're all on the same page, let's tackle some criticisms/issues folks have with the style:

- "Rap is sampled, which means taking other people's music (stealing) and simply rapping over it. Therefore, it is unoriginal."
Rock music features amplified and distoreted instrumentation, layering, multi-tracking. The studio wizardry of rock producers is now legendary. Some artists whom I consider brilliant, like Peter Gabriel and Frank Zappa, owe their great music as much to the studio as to the performances. The studio is a musical instrument.
(FWIW, I can appreciate the raw sound as much as anyone. And performance is crucial, as any jazz lover knows. It's just a different dimension to modern music, one that has little focus in rap.)
Hip-hop simply takes this practice to the next logical step.
Sampling can be done in so many different ways, it's unreal. As cliche as this sounds, it's an art. Like playing a guitar, anyone can learn the basics and put together song. A master will wow you.

Example of unimaginitive sampling: Poof-Daddy rapping over Every Breath You Take by The Police. He does nothing with the sampled song, leaving too much of the original in the mind of the listener. It doesn't help that he has no flow as an MC and his lyrics suck.
Example of creative, groundbreaking sampling: Public Enemy
The mixes of Terminator X were dense, layered, and highly rhythmic. Though the sounds were sampled from other records, the vast majority could not be recognised by the listener, even though the songs they were taken from were familiar (lots of Hendrix, P-Funk, James Brown). An open-minded music teacher in college played "911 Is A Joke In Your Town" and pointed out 14(!) layers of percussion. This "noise," as fan Spike Lee calls it, is their own sound and every bit as original as the Sitar melody of Norwegian Wood.

- "It has no melody / they don't sing."
I would hard-pressed to call what a lot of rockers do as singing.
Joking aside, yes, the music is heavily emphasised on rhythm.
The antithesis of hip-hop, in my mind, is European classical music, which highly simplistic rhythmically, but stongly melodic/harmonic. The defining characteristic of European traditional music is melody, while the its equivalent in Africa is rhythm. Given their roots, it is not surprising that black-Americans have always depended on rhythm first to make their music- blues had a pounding rhythm or a shuffle, the swing big beat, the fast percussive attack that fueled be-bop, the ass-shaking 2/4 of funk and soul, the reggae syncopation (ok, that last one is Jamaican, but you get my drift). Hip-hop is the next step, updating black music by infusing it with the hard-hitting beat of the street.

As for the "no singing," rapping (well) is every bit as tough as singing, it's just a different skill. Besides having interesting or entertaining lyrics, a good MC more importantly has "flow," a musical lilting feel to his rap. Bad rappers don't have it.
And, as with singing, a lot of it is about style and personality. Chuck D, Eminem, and Snoop Dogg are all excellent MCs, each with strong and unique personalities. Notice that all of them are also very legible (I hate rappers who slur their words). Chuck personifies the angry, militant, political rage; Eminem the highly personalised but precise wordsmith; and Snoop the ultimate Southern party drawl.

There are many different kinds of flow, and I've given them my own names:

Classic flow: this is where the rapper stays completely with the beat, verbal accents mach musical accents, and everything is steady. Usually found with mid-tempo rap and the default sound of old-school.
Examples: Rapper's Delight, Dr Dre, Jurassic 5

Drawl flow: southern style, behind the beat
Examples: Snoop Dogg, OutKast

Angry flow: very gruff, forceful, even bludgeoning. Though common in gangsta, it's also in other types of rap. (I tend to shy away from this, personally)
Examples: Onyx, DMX

Free-flow flow (I know the name sucks; it's a good thing God didn't choose me to name the animals): very elastic around the beat with lots of dynamic or tempo modulations. This is the most "experimental" style and can be the most interesting, difficult, annoying, exciting, or just weird MCing style.
Examples: Busta Rhymes, Missy Elliott, Kool Keith, Blackalicious

For me personally, the biggest different between rappers and singers is that I'm usually more interested in what the rapper is saying than the singer.

- "It's all about bling/hos/violence, etc."
A lot of it is.
It's no secret that most rappers of the past 15 yrs come from the streets. Many used to be broke, or gangsters, or even pimps. This is adult music made my less-than-perfect souls, many of them vain, egocentric, and even stupid.
When they make it, they will enjoy their materialism, sometimes too much. The point is how the MC will address it in their music.
OutKast, for example, rap about cruisin' in their Cadillac, stylin', in a party sense. It's not obnoxious and no different than rockers bragging about their teenage girlfriends or "pink Cadillacs." It's fun and cool. It makes me want to join their block party. More like Jimmy Buffett than Nelly. The bragging is like what my friends and I do. It makes me a little jealous, but it's enjoyable.
The way a lot of the MTV guys do it is obnoxious. They're not cool to me, they're just dicks.

- "It's racist / anti-white."
It's no secret that a rapper appealing mostly to whites will make them lose street cred. And Eminem and Beastie Boys had to prove their mettle more than blacks to earn respect in the hip-hop community (and they still have their haters there). Since music is cultural, that is only natural. Southern rock is all white- well what a surprise.
Inner-city blacks are pissed, and it will be expressed through rap. Some whites can't handle it. To me, this is more "real" than most rock groups, so I appreciate it. I also grew up in Brooklyn, so I'm not shocked by things I've lived with all my life, anyway.
Still, you'd be hard-pressed to find some truly racist rap. Every time I've seen it accused as such, it was a product of the accuser's paranoia or, even worse, own ignorance and bigotry.

Now I'll describe an album I just listened to:
Dr. Octogonecolygist, by Dr Octagon, aka Kool Keith
"Kool" Keith is a former mental patient at Bellevue. The first word that comes to mind when with him is "weird." His music is weird and his lyrics are weird, as are his many personas.
His rapping style has flow, but it's not always direct. He'll speed up real fast and spit out a dizzying barage of tongue-twisting words, sometimes they don't rhyme and they rarely make sense. But overall, there is some sort of greater logic at work and, mixed with the dirty but lush production, is some amazingly grooving music. I'm continually enthralled by music where the whole is greater than the sum of its parts (King Crimson is a favorite for this reason), and this album does that. The lyrics themselves are often a consequence of which words sound cool together. He'll let the beat chase him resulting in moments of rhythmic convergence that are just so damned cool.
Lots of great scratching on this record. Organ and other odd touches are used to create a street-hoppin' spook sound to support the album's "theme."
Oh, yeah, the theme. Dr. Octagon is apparently some sort of time and/or space traveling gynecologist who uses his profession to molest women, or something. However, there's no misogyny on the album that I can make out. Much of the lyrics consist of big words that mean nothing. Lemme see if I can find some on the web.

And thus the album begins.
The music itself has funk with heavy embellshments of organ and scratching to give at that inter-galactic OBGYN feel.

It simply has to be heard. This is the kind of thing that won't be on pop culture TV but that the rap underground has known about for years.

Ok, look, I said it was adult, right? Adult can mean dark humor, swearing, sophiticated romance, or pee-pee jokes. All to be found in rap.
In my point of view, rap tends to be less naive than most rock.

Other hip-hop:

Much has been said of OutKast due to their recent hit singles and double album. While that's great, know that their earlier material, where they're rapping together, is much better. All of their albums are great. Southern crunk, party music, the occassional socially conscious lyrics. The sound is often layered, featuring background singing and catchy hooks.

Blackalicious' Blazing Arrow is simply brilliant. It's worth it for his rapping alone: laser sharp and fast, lyrically impressive. The high-quality beats and sounds pushes the work to the top of the heap. What's also great is that the whole album runs together, each song leading into the next. I would go so far as to call this album the litmus test of hip-hop: that is to say that if you don't like this, I can't imagine how you would like good hip-hop and maybe you should just write off the whole genre.

Public Enemy is probably my favorite rap group, as much for their importance in music and nostalgia as anything. The Roots and Jurassic 5 are two more favorites. Gang Starr is great, but the album their lead MC, Guru, did with live jazz music, Jazzmataz, is a masterpiece. DJ Shadows vocal-less Endtroducing is another classic.


To get back to the philosophy of music appreciation, I recognise that there are some folks who simply "like what the like" and "don't like what they don't like." I personally don't subscribe to that way of thinking. I feel that the more you can explain what it is you don't like about something or why something does touch you makes you more educated about music and yourself. Music is my love, my hobby, and it's important to me to "get it." P-Doody bothers me, but I can express why. Busta Rhymes doesn't bother me, but I don't like his music and I know why. I can recognise what it is about Dr Dre's first album that does it for me, and why his second doesn't so much. I like to be flexible about where my discovering and tastes will take me.

For the folks that share that mind-set, I'd love to hear you experiences with hip-hop and would gladly help in what little way I can to explain it or help educate my friends. I've learned so much from you folks and would love to return the favor.

A bit more about where I'm coming from: I'm 26, so rap and "grunge" are the musics of my youth. I used to be a rap-hater. I discovered the "classic" rock and still love some of it (Zeppellin rules!). In college I got heavily into prog (I know there are some proggers here), a culture of music that generally despises rap. At some point I got sick of all the sound-alike bands, but still worship at the alter of King Crimson, Genesis, Rush, Dream Theater, et al as well as the best of the modern ones. I also am an avid listener of jazz and it's what I listen to most nowadays. Charles Mingus is my ultimate musical hero.
My point is that I have much in common musically with a lot of forum members (except maybe my age and the fact I don't yet have a vinyl rig). I'm not expert in rap yet, but I'm learning, and that's half the fun.

 

I was thinking of mentioning any difference between hip-hop and rap, but there is no clear-cut difference. Kinda like hard rock vs heavy metal, but even more confusing. Your definition, for example, conflicts with what I'm familiar. Not necessarily saying I'm "right," just that I don't think it matters anymore.

Back in the day, hip-hop music usually emphasised the beats and music, with party lyrics, ie, Salt 'n' Peppa, Beastie Boys. Rap emphasised lyrics and was often topical, like Public Enemy.

However, I think gangsta rap sort of tore all that down, because if you listen to something like NWA, they production and beats are hip-hop style, but the lyrics are definitely topical (to say the least).

Since then, it's all hip-hop to me.

As for cross-over stuff, I think many of my examples were not cross-over, which was the point. I've seen people "advocate" a style of music and suggest people listen to the lighter, "easier" material. With rap, it would be something like Rage Against the Machine of the metal crowd. To me, that's like telling a jazz-o-phobe to listen to Grover Washington. Maybe it's a valid way of doing it, but I believe in letting music speak for itself.

Listen to Blackalicious and Thelonious Monk instead.

(Note: nothing against Rage or Washington, etc and so forth)

 

Right. Hip Hop and Rap was about being topical, much like Reggae was. Then it was turned into a more commercially viable party thing. Sometimes both mixed.

I think young kids get into the style and the aggressive "Gangsta" feel. Maybe I'm getting old, but when kids focus on just that part, something gets lost. Then it becomes political, how scary you can be, and boy that's a market!

I've listened to the Beasties, Public Enemy, De La Soul, all of it was very technically clever! It was hard to disagree with that! Hip hop was about a new, broader creativity.

Now, I think it's much different. I don't feel the way I used to about Hip Hop. That's just me though.

 

Mike B,

That was AWSOME! Your article was dead-on accurate. This is required reading and deserves a sticky.

As a result of this, i'm going to try Dr. Octogon. I'm already a fan of contemporary rappers like Outkast, Eminem, Dr. Dre, Ice Cube, and DMX.

You didn't mention great political rappers like Public Enemy, who just released a new album.

 

Mike,

Very informative, educational and well-written. I enjoyed the opportunity.

Bob

 

That's a great article, Mike. I think you pretty much nailed it all on the head.

 

Mike,

Great post -- I'm a rap/hip-hop fan, and I learned a lot from your post.

Kool Keith/Octagon is amazing. If you're coming from mostly a rock background, try "I'm Destructive". The guitar and drum hooks on that one will get you.

Grant: he did mention Public Enemy in a sense by mentioning Terminator-X -- the turntablist behind PE. I always enjoyed the purely instrumental cuts off of "Fear Of A Black Planet" -- truly a landmark album.

I'm not a big fan of 50 Cent -- but those mash-ups of "In Da Club" by DSICO are the right direction. Definitely a party-vibe song.

 

Great post, Mike!

I was introduced to hip hop/rap music in the early 80's so my taste in this genre is decidedly "old school". I still like the occasional song but I no longer go looking for something new. The large swing to more gangsta-style lyrics turned me off.

Let me just give a shout out to another great group: A Tribe Called Quest.

And of course we cannot go far without mentioning Run-D.M.C.

 

"I'm Destructive" is a cool. I could listen to those drums from "Shack Up" all day.

Another semi-recent classic that deserves a mention in this thread is Doomsday by MF Doom. Truly, a great album. Some people might recognise breaks from "Glass Onion" and "Black Cow" on there. Also, the way he combines samples from "Wild Style" and that Fantastic Four cartoon from the 60s really works.

 

Anyone remember Tone-Loc's "Locked After Dark", or "SWASS" by Sir Mix-A-Lot? Classic albums that are very enjoyable and fun to listen to. They were both cutting edge at the time.

 

Probably not, Steve. The same with a lot of young fans of "hot country," they "move on" when a new trend comes out yet many do remain loyal to their favorites.

 

I never understood it, either. If I may, "black folk" have historically (in a southern drawl) tended to keep looking forward when it comes to music, any music. They don't seem to dwell on the old and familiar unless you can give it something new. That may explain why the classic stuff doesn't sell that well. The white folks are buying it if they buy it at all.

AS for technology, I have made the observation that older black consumers tend to stick to old vinyl and tapes. Not having the money is one factor. The other is that the stuff is too hard to find in Wal-Mart or much anywhere else. Few black people are willing to go on the internet and pay for expensive imports with a credit card. The younger ones, I don't know. I guess they are downloading mp3s.

As far as those albums are concerned, I don't think urban listeners, or anyone else cares about them too much, and I think it goes back to what I stated in the first paragraph. The people are always looking for something new. They pay their props, but move on.

But, what this means to me is i'm just plain out of luck, for the most part. The companies know classic "black music" doesn't sell well, so why bother? It's about the bottom line.

I love the old music, and will never leave it. I grew up in southern Arizona, so I guess i'm a bit different, in that I embrace new technology and try to buy it.

 

I am loyal to the music I enjoy as well and lots of it is that old.

 

I've always noticed the cut out bins are full of mostly R&B CD's. I just assumed there was a higher quantity of music being produced in that genre.

 

Mike B, Thank you very much for taking the time to explain the music. It's pretty late right now but I will re-read tomorrow....

 

Well, there IS a legacy, but it isn't going digital. A big difference is that for black music (and I do hate that term), it is the artists that are remembered, not the music they made. Chaka Khan, James Brown, Stevie Wonder Michael Jackson, Diana Ross, and some rappers are remembered and respected, but not their recorded legacy. The audience always wants to hear new material from these artists, when, by contrast, whites would rather usually hear the classic stuff that might remind them of their past, lost love, or whatever.

Steve, I have a computer, a CD burner, some good software, and a turntable. This is how I get my classic R&B and rap. I have to work for what I want, because it isn't easy to find a lot of stuff. You may find a song on some CD compilation and it will disappear a month later with no trace. You can't find the 45 or album because no one sells their stuff. I still can't find a decent copy of the Ohio Players' "Funky Worm". It came out on the "Next Friday Old School" soundtrack, but the CD seems to have disappeared off the face of the earth. Maybe someone online will come up with a copy.

 

While you are busy checking out Kool Keith's Dr. Octagon stuff, may I suggest you look back a little further. Kool Keith used to belong to a group called the Ultramagnetic MC's. Their debut album "Critical Beatdown" is one of the great unsung masterpieces in rap music. They weren't really that big outside of New York, people in the know have praised these guys for their innovative production, great lyrics and rhymes on that album. It was because of the cult following they developed from that album, they were signed by Mercury in the early 90's, who put out their second album, which is equally good, but unfortunately is out of print.

And as far as the comments about Public Enemy, I agree that "Fear Of A Black Planet" is a great album, their second one "It Takes A Nation Of Millions To Hold Us Back" in my opinion is their watershed album. Anyone who claims that rap music doesn't have anything to say and isn't imaginative and creative, you need to listen to this album.

 

Don't forget the album the Ultramagnetic MC's did for Wild Pitch, The Four Horsemen. (Anyone got a copy? )

As for Public Enemy, I actually like their first album the most, but almost all of their albums are pretty good.

 

The "party" element of rap was there from the beginning. Kids on the street with a boombox, a turntable, and some rhymes. The topical stuff came later.

I believe I mentioned them quite a bit.
But I haven't heard anything they did after Fear of a Black Planet. Must correct that...

50 Cent bothers me- not for the same reason he bothers some (image), but musically. The production and sound is great. In Da Club is a killer track (gotta love that G-Funk sound). But as an MC and lyricist he's dreadful. What a waste.

The Low End Theory should be in everyone's collection.

I guess no more or less than suburban kids with rock bands. Remember how popular Limp Bizkit was? Now they're used as target practice when they hit the stage with Metallica.
And let's not forget about Dre. Broke out with NWA in the late 80s, which is like ancient history in hip-hop. Reborn as an MC with The Chronic. Re-re-born again with its sequal much later.
"Ain't Nothin' But a G Thing" by Dre and Snoop is still one of the most popular block-party grooves. And while most popular rappers are here today, gone tomorrow, longevity is still there for artists who can achieve it. Look how long Jay-Z has been at the top.

"Planet" came out after "Millions."

Thanks to the folks who recommended some music. Will definitely keep it in mind.

One observation I failed to mention in my original post:
The current hip-hop scene is remeniscent of Motown and 60s soul, in that you have a consistent team of studio musicians who back a rotating roster of stars. While the unsung heros behind the scenese put together the music, the performers are primped and prettied for the spotlight. The Neptunes and Timbaland are what Steve Cropper and James Jamerson were back then.