History of CBS Records 30th Street Studio NYC (many pictures)

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by DMortensen, Oct 21, 2014.

  1. DMortensen

    DMortensen Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Seattle, WA USA
    Hi Everyone,

    Hope you are all well as we begin to exit the pandemic.

    Today was a fun day as I got a call out of the blue from Michael V. who wanted to say thanks for the Frank Laico videos that are on Youtube that are a PNW AES meeting that Bob Smith and I put together 12 1/2 years ago.

    He had some details of 30th St gear to share, and I told him about this thread, which was news to him. I'll let him get through the small mountain of details that we've found and let him share his info here, which he said he'd do. He was curious about analyzing the sound of the space and if I knew anything about that, and I told him about the professor from McGill University who was trying to do just that, although I realized I hadn't heard any results about that project since first learning of it almost a year ago. Michael was going to contact that person and I hope to hear what he found.

    Not earth-shattering, but still enjoyable as that hasn't happened that exact way before.

    Take care,
    Dan

    PS Page 103!
     
  2. heretoday65

    heretoday65 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Arizona
    Here is a link and excerpt regarding the acoustical research of McGill's Dr. Ko at Columbia Studio A in Nashville:

    Sound Hounds: How One Research Team Is Helping Preserve the Acoustics of Historic Places | National Trust for Historic Preservation

    "Ko emphasizes that their work is not specifically about saving Music Row; it’s about saving places around the globe. Once their work is complete in Nashville, they will move on to the Rochester Savings Bank in Rochester, New York, and the UNESCO World Heritage Site of Chavín de Huántar in Peru. This will give Ko’s team three distinct, endangered case studies to test their strategies, allowing them to make stronger conclusions."

    I can imagine things got delayed along the way.

    Ted
     
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  3. DMortensen

    DMortensen Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Seattle, WA USA
    Hi Ted,

    Thanks for posting that interesting link.

    However, although it's interesting, Dr. Ko seems to be a Belmont researcher now and is no longer McGill's, plus he is not the professor that I was referring to at McGill. I hope MV contacts that one and can tell us more about their project and how this one relates to theirs. One must think that Dr. Ko was involved in some kind of similar research with the professor that I'm aware of. How many McGill professors would be working in that area?

    IIRC, the other project was trying to characterize spaces that were no longer extant by using existing recordings of the space, particularly those which had abrupt impulses followed by musical silences which allowed the reverberations to fade out. That seems immensely harder to me as well as being much more ambiguous in its results. Still, I suggested the Roscoe Mitchell recording that had the great pictures posted here, which has a lot of that kind of percussion-hit-followed-by-silence.

    How do they weed out the sound of the room from any added reverberance, regardless of source (electronic vs. physical chamber vs. physical plate vs. ?)?

    We shall see.
     
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  4. hvbias

    hvbias Midrange magic

    Location:
    Northeast
    Does anyone know when 30th St. Studio would have started recording to tape? Specifically classical music, if that matters.
     
  5. W.B.

    W.B. The Collector's Collector

    Location:
    New York, NY, USA
    Spring of 1949, from what I can tell. Initially recording parallel with 16" safeties (the latter of which was used to cut the LP of South Pacific; I read they didn't use the tape of that until the CD era).
     
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  6. hvbias

    hvbias Midrange magic

    Location:
    Northeast
    Thank you W.B. I was listening to a CD reissue of a Juilliard String Quartet recording made there in May 11 and 13, 1949 and I hear some very occasional surface noise. Maybe tapes weren't able to be located for this reissue.
     
  7. crispi

    crispi Vinyl Archaeologist

    Location:
    Berlin
    I’m not familiar with that very recording, but early tape sometimes sound eerily close to good-quality wax recording, as the noise levels were quite high and there’s even rumble...
     
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  8. DMortensen

    DMortensen Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Seattle, WA USA
    I have a series of pictures showing Risa Stevens and her husband having their picture taken by W. Eugene Smith in what I finally figured out was the old control room and there are no tape recorders in it. It looks gigantic, which is why it took a while to figure out where it was.

    He took pictures for LIFE at that time, and I've tried to find that sequence but have been unsuccessful. WES also took pictures for other entities and that may be why I've been unsuccessful.

    But maybe one of the sleuths here will find the key? That would help identify a date when it was in use but no tape machines. That is the only sequence or single picture I've found with no recorders. Frank Laico told us that they sent the audio to 799 7th to be recorded, over equalized phone lines.
     
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  9. lukpac

    lukpac Senior Member

    Location:
    Milwaukee, WI
    *Rise (or Risë). Google didn't like "Risa".

    Seeing if I can find anything.
     
  10. lukpac

    lukpac Senior Member

    Location:
    Milwaukee, WI
    Are the photos online somewhere? I'm not seeing them, just some other studio shots.

    I found a spread in LIFE from February 20, 1950, but not with any photos in 30th Street. "Work Horse of the Met":

    LIFE
     
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  11. Dan C

    Dan C Forum Fotographer

    Location:
    The West
    It wasn't too uncommon for photos or stories to be spiked after they were photographed. Could be they're in the LIFE archive but have never been printed or digitized.

    dan c
     
  12. segue

    segue Psychoacoustic Member

    Location:
    Hawai'i
    Is it possible someone here would have the answer to the longest-running-but-never-answered question (linked below) on the SHF forums, regarding the "Triangle symbol" on Columbia/CBS and associated label recordings (LP's, CD's and Tapes).

    Thanks in advance.

    Symbol on mid-80s CBS Records releases... ???

    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]

    file under: somebody knows
     
    Last edited: Aug 5, 2021
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  13. thnkgreen

    thnkgreen Sprezzatura!

    Location:
    NC, USA
  14. GLouie

    GLouie Forum Resident

    Location:
    Seattle
    Some necro-posting - I was reliving the past, and back on page 60 I think we can now safely place this at the Hotel St George, knowing now about post [ #2514 ]. It would seem to be out of place from Dan's other pics.

    -GL
     
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  15. lukpac

    lukpac Senior Member

    Location:
    Milwaukee, WI
    My Company Blu-ray arrived the other day, and I've had some time to check it out. The additional extras are nice, and the quality is a noticeable upgrade over the DVD. A few random screen caps:

    Fred Plaut checking mic cables.
    [​IMG]

    Musicians entering the studio.
    [​IMG]

    A close-up of Fred Plaut adjusting the controls.
    [​IMG]
    Note the buss selectors at the top of the console (on the right in the photo). The left buss selectors are colored red, the center buss selectors are colored yellow, and the right buss selectors are colored blue. There are three sets of each, numbered 1-3.

    Stephen Sondheim, Fred Plaut, Bob Waller, a couple of unknown people, and Thomas Z. Shepard in the control room during the recording of "The Ladies Who Lunch".
    [​IMG]

    Elaine Stritch walking back into the control room while the orchestra records a backing track for "The Ladies Who Lunch".
    [​IMG]
    It's hard to tell for certain because there's a cable in the way, but it appears this was about 4:40 Monday morning. You can also see one of the lights Pennebaker brought in for filming.
     
  16. lukpac

    lukpac Senior Member

    Location:
    Milwaukee, WI
    Bonus, another shot of the buss selectors on the console, with Fred Plaut selecting buss R2:

    [​IMG]

    Jim Reeves has indicated there was a 10th buss, named "4", to feed 4-track, but I'm only seeing 9 selectors both here and in photos of the Studio A console. My guess is while the consoles were initially designed for 3-track use, the fact that there were 9 busses made 4- and later 8-track recording workable, even if the busses weren't used as originally intended.
     
  17. GLouie

    GLouie Forum Resident

    Location:
    Seattle
    How's the parody?

    BTW, I was taught to use bus for yellow vehicles and audio lines, and buss for kissing....
    https://www.aes.org/par/b/
     
  18. lukpac

    lukpac Senior Member

    Location:
    Milwaukee, WI
    I haven't watched all of it yet, but as with the Salesman parody, it's amazing how many minor details are referenced.

    Eh, sounds like something from some egghead author.
     
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  19. 2xUeL

    2xUeL Forum Philosopher

    Location:
    Albany, NY
    This doc blew my mind when I saw it at the AES conference several years back...so glad it's back in print!
     
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  20. lukpac

    lukpac Senior Member

    Location:
    Milwaukee, WI
    Expanding on this:

    This is what Pennebaker says about the lights in the commentary early in the film:

    "It took place in a big studio that used to be a church. I wasn't sure how to light that hall. People were moving around all over the place. It was sort of like trying to light a basketball game. But basketball games are really very well lit. They're lit from overhead. So I went and got some 16 hour photofloods and prayed the session wouldn't last more than 16 hours."

    I don't know if I had inferred it, or someone had explicitly stated as much, but I was under the impression Pennebaker was saying he replaced some (all?) of the overhead studio lights with photofloods. His basketball game comment seems to suggest that, as does this much later in the film:

    "I was a little nervous about the lights. Because we were already getting near the 16 hour mark. One or two of them had already popped. If they went, it would start getting very dark, and I didn't see how to put up new lights with all those musicians around all over the place. So I prayed."

    Looking closely at the film again, however, I'm nearly certain that he didn't touch the existing studio lights, and merely placed a handful of additional lights around the studio. There was at least one in the back corner of the control room:

    [​IMG]

    And two out in the studio, facing away from the control room (you can see them shining right into the camera here):

    [​IMG]

    At some point the one in the control room did in fact apparently burn out:

    [​IMG]

    He also used one in Studio E a day or two later for Stritch's overdub to "The Ladies Who Lunch", placed on top of the coat rack:

    [​IMG]

    Those are all much brighter than the overhead lights normally present.

    Does anyone recall if Pennebaker said anything else about this at some point? I know it's been discussed, either here or elsewhere. Dan? Gary?
     
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  21. GLouie

    GLouie Forum Resident

    Location:
    Seattle
    I don't recall much about the lighting comments, but take all such comments decades after the fact with a grain of salt.

    Personally, I vote for having replaced all of the overheads lamps, and the few others seen are for aux/fill light such as in the control room. I don't otherwise think you could get enough light, and the right color balance.
     
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  22. DMortensen

    DMortensen Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Seattle, WA USA
    I watched mine for the first time last night: the main movie (no commentary), an interview with Jonathan Tunick by Ted Chapin (both of whom were in the control room in the movie), and the Coop discussion.

    The latter was a Zoom call among 10 or so of the people who took part in some way in the making of Coop, including John Mullany (sp?), a producer ( I think), the orchestrator/composer, Richard Kind, and other notable cast members.

    All of it was great and I'm looking forward to watching the rest. The picture detail was indeed better though not crystal clear, although we seem to clearly be seeing all the detail that the film stock was capable of.

    The sound is very interesting and is clearer but I feel it's different mix altogether, with some parts missing to my ear (it seems thinner than the earlier version overall, although that makes it seem clearer), and somethings differently emphasized than in the earlier version. I could be wrong.

    Having met Ted's father once, who was a Masterworks honcho for a while I believe (probably when this movie was recorded), and I believe his brother is a featured member of the chorus, I am interested in learning more about them and what they did in life. Ted's credit in the intro to the extra was that he wrote a book about orchestration, which would be interesting to know how that came about.

    Thanks for cluing us in on the release of this upgrade, the screenshots and explanations, and I'm glad I got it.
     
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  23. lukpac

    lukpac Senior Member

    Location:
    Milwaukee, WI
    I'm not sure about that. There are a few shots (the end of "Side By Side" is a good one) where you can clearly see both the overhead lights and the lights put up specifically for the film, and the film lights are significantly brighter. Also, those film lights *weren't* on during "You Could Drive a Person Crazy" ,"Getting Married Today", and "Another Hundred People", and the color balance seems to be more yellow during those scenes. That makes me wonder if "Company" (seen first in the film) was actually recorded first, or if Pennebaker took some creative liberties with editing.

    I don't think it's a different mix, but the DVD had fake stereo processing during the songs during the shots out in the studio (but not during non-music scenes nor outside of the studio). It's just mono on the Blu-ray. Also, the DVD had some sort of audio problem during the commentary that the Blu-ray doesn't have. The notes indicate it was remastered "from the original 1/4-inch and 16mm magnetic tracks".
     
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  24. DMortensen

    DMortensen Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Seattle, WA USA
    That's Tunick on the right.

    All I know about the lighting is what's in the original commentary, I think, although I did have the impression that Pennebaker replaced the ceiling lights, too. He definitely augmented existing lighting as well.
     
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  25. brucej4

    brucej4 Forum Resident

    Location:
    West Coast, USA
    Wikipedia: "(Ted) Chapin's start in Broadway production was being a production or directorial assistant in the Broadway productions of Follies, The Rothschilds, and The Unknown Soldier and His Wife, as well as Leonard Bernstein’s Mass at the Kennedy Center, and Candide in San Francisco. After becoming president of the Rodgers & Hammerstein Organization, Chapin would lead and encouraged many Broadway productions and revivals..."
     
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