The picture on the right is more conclusive in that he seems to have the same mustache and short goatee as Slick in the CBS picture. Right Reverend is the correct address for an Orthodox Bishop, not Reverend but perhaps CBS failed to do due diligence in the correspondence. I would be very surprised if Tyler Turner was still at CBS after his 1947 installation as Bishop even of a splinter Orthodox group unless he was simply there as an adviser/producer for organ music rather than a corporate position. . Do we know when the picture was taken? I would definitely think it was his wife next to him as it would be odd for a high priest or bishop to be so familiar with another woman in a photo. As for the death date, I mentioned above the oddity of an obit in the Electric Railroad Association magazine for a Paul Tyler Turner in Nov 1970.
Can you post that obit? It would be great if he was into model trains, too. The Billboard article from November 1949 says he was assistant to Richard Gilbert, and he was in 30th St sometime before the original mixing console was replaced in 1952. He put out the High Fidelity album in 1955 and must have been working on it for a while. That picture was taken on a remote which was earlier in the thread with E. Power Biggs. IIRC someone ID'd the location but I don't remember... So I searched the thread and found that mdr30 awesomely said: ========================== "Symphony Hall, Boston. I first thought this could be a setting for Händel organ concertos, but E Power Biggs recorded those with Boult in England on a church organ Händel himself played (quite an adventure with organ pitch problems and failing electricity, told by Boult in his autobiography My Own Trumpet). That's Richard Burgin conducting, concert master of the Boston Symphony . And it's quite a team of players from the Boston Symphony, operating under the Columbia Chamber Orchestra moniker, among them fabulous trumpeter Roger Voisin and Burgin's co-concert master Alfred Krips. They are most likely recording "Bach - Music of Jubilee" on the then new G. Donald Harrison organ installed in Symphony Hall, an organ for baroque and classical music, in memory of Bach's 200th anniversary in 1950. The recording could have been made already in 1949, though. Released as Columbia ML 4435. Richard Burgin had quite a life, beginning as a violin student of Leopold Auer at the St Petersburg conservatory, where one of his class-mates was Jascha Heifetz. His career brought him to Scandinavia where he was leader of the Stockholm Philharmonic for a couple of years and formed his own string quartet. And then a violin and conducting career in the USA followed. He was a colleague and friend of Monteux and Koussevitky and many other musicians and composers. Check his daughter's web site where there is a "memoralia" section with memoirs and photos: www.dianaburgin.com From the photo it seems only one RCA ribbon microphone was used for the orchestra, but the Boston acoustics are good. The microphone cord could be from a hanging microphone catching the organ pipes. The double basses are probably the Boston Symphony's, waiting for another rehearsal or concert. The woman is most likely Mrs Power Biggs, also sitting behind him at the organ. I have seen the two together on a couple of other photos. If Adjutor Theroux was the recording enineer, and Fred Plaut taking photographs, maybe the man in black could be the producer? ============================================ This is the picture he's talking about: Can't really see her in the pic, she's too much in the shadows and my technology doesn't improve it. Here's a couple others I posted at the time: First one maybe matches the one with Turner, second one, not so sure. BTW, thanks for finding that article about the Society of Saint Basil; that was what led to finding that book and those pictures. It's remarkable how fragmented that information was on the web, though. It took several variations of searching to come up with the link to that book pdf. I also found a website (maybe more than one) that went into great detail about how Archbishop Alexander's initial appointment into the church/sect was invalid because of the appointer's doing something which invalidated his appointment, which invalidated all results from that appointment. Many others simply parroted the historical information that was in the website you found. There seem to be many factions in that belief system; it reminds me when my sister told me that if you get 2 people from India together you'll get at least 3 different political parties. Unrelated thought: It would be fun if someone could find any issues of the magazine Turner published for a while, called Orthodoxy... Incidentally, the letters S.S.B. after his and others's names in that book must be Society of Saint Basil.
It's hard to tell from old snap photos but to me the two pictures of Mrs Biggs resemble each other more than they do the woman at the side of Tyler Turner. The Masterworks LP of Organ music ML4195 in the Discogs list I posted the link to above was of Biggs recorded at Columbia U. It wasn't a model railroading association, it was people interested in electrified railroad lines - The Electric Railroaders Association. They published a newsletter and had an annual meeting. Search for tyler in the pdf. https://erausa.org/pdf/headlights-indexes/1970-headlights-index.pdf The Western Rite was an outgrowth of an idealistic sentiment to repair the breach between Western and Eastern churches that occurred in the 10th and 11th C in the Middle Ages. So their rites were antiquarian but not at all forbidden by either side.
The listing has ended a couple of days ago. He may relist. I will bookmark it and check. I assume you are looking for a Turner obit? I doubt that they provided accompanying bios but maybe say where they were located which would narrow it down a lot. He would have to be in the NY or NE region of the Association This thread has certainly taken an unusual turn with Bishop Turner. I think CBS was probably much tighter and bureaucratic after 1950. Perhaps Tyler Turner held on at CBS in the 40s because the war years made it difficult to find younger knowledgeable people.
The listing ended but maybe he still wants to sell it? He's listed it twice with no takers. Maybe an email to him? Maybe that's not possible, I don't see a contact on his Store. Oh, there is, when you go to his seller profile or store or whatever it is, but you have to sign in as an Ebay member, which I'm not. Yes, an obit with some detail would be wonderful. That's what I'd ask the seller in an email, he (?) seems to have pretty good reviews. I wouldn't ask for the details, just if it's there, and if it was it would be worth $6.20 to me ($4+2.20 shipping). I'd gladly send a check to someone for the magazine if it's got details. Especially why he was interested in electric railroading. Agreed that this is an unusual turn. As I've said before, I'm as interested in the people who were in the studio as I am in the building and gear, and finding an Archbishop in regular attendance is notable. Interesting that you say "CBS was probably much tighter and bureaucratic after 1950". My impression is that Goddard valued art, talent, and ability regardless of the package it was contained in and, on some level, for its own sake. And that after he left that all changed and the accountants and bureaucrats ruled. I could be wrong, I'm not an insider.
I just contacted him. He has the issue and I asked him to relist. Incidentally that Headlights magazine is still being published by ERA. The Association started in 1939 so that is quite an achievement. It seems to be a very professional mag with good historical photos and info.
Why can't I like your post more than once? Thank you, let me know if there's anything I need to do to get our hands on that info, So I followed that link to Richard Burgin's daughter's website in mdr30's post, and in the photos section the first one I clicked was Can you believe it? With a probable date. Too bad the woman isn't in it, too, they would have known who she was. We know who the man is. And he's smoking a cigar.
He relisted and I bought it. I'll let you know when it arrives by PM if thats OK. No need to clutter the thread anymore with this other than the info if any.
He looks here much more like he does in the St Basil pictures. It is the picture with the woman where he looks different, with a rounder softer face.
Quick search didn't show that this has been posted in this thread before: A NAMM video interview with George Avakian about his very early days with Columbia. George Avakian Apologies if I missed a previous posting.
Ah, good, glad that video of George was new to the thread. There is a series of George interviews posted here, I think, that was made by the Wall Street Journal guy (Mark Maron?) and are much longer and to the point of the thread. These are mostly short, just a couple or few minutes. Here's another one: Fred Catero These are both part of the NAMM Oral History project, which must have hundreds of videos. I'm going through them after another thread on these forums had a link to a different one. Most are music retailers in Peoria or somewhere, many are musicians, and some are engineers and producers. I'm paying attention to ones by people who were involved in 30th St in some way and who say something relevant to their days at Columbia. I'll post them as I find and view them.
Buddy Greco came up earlier in this thread; here he is talking about his long career. There's a lot of videos on that site. I've scrolled through 1500 and am in the H's. Lots of interesting moments in them, only a few relevant to 30th St.
Joe Morello talking about how he came to be in the Brubeck Quartet and his early days with them. These are apparently all going to fall into the category of "Background Info about People We've Seen in 30th St." rather than anything specifically about 30th St. The interviews are generally about 4 minutes long and, needless to say, about the people rather than their specific studio interactions. I'm up to "N" and very close to 3000 interviews in the collection so far. There's really a lot of interesting people in there who you've heard of, and they have a lot of good things to tell us about.
Here's a really nice one, where Don Puluse talks about some of his times with Sly and the Family Stone. Don is really a positive guy and fun to talk with, just like in this video.
This one is more tentatively connected to the thread, although he talks about CBS Records (California, alas). Michael "Omar" Omartian gives us an idea of what it was like to be a studio musician, which would be universal no matter where you were, and the abruptness of his entry to that group (which he describes) gives a sharp contrast to his thoughts about the difference before and after.
While not quite finished with going through the NAMM video archive (still in the W's at 3500 videos!), here are a few of people who were in 30th St at one time or another: Lester Chambers of The Chambers Brothers Dick Hyman Mundell Lowe Les Paul, one hour long I'm embarrassed to say I don't remember if it was Jim Reeves or Don Puluse who talked about The Chambers Brothers going out to Third Avenue to get people to come into the studio during sessions to give them a party atmosphere to record to, but that is a funny mental image. Lester doesn't mention that, but does talk about the family feeling to their music. Dick Hyman mostly talks about his experiences having his music sampled for #1 Rap albums. We talked earlier in the thread about guitarist Mundell Lowe, and it's interesting to hear about him from his perspective. Les Paul doesn't address the evolution of multitrack recording, although he talks about the fact of it. He also talks a lot about overcoming adversity, which is a good example for all of us. What can you say about that incredible guy? I have to pause looking through these videos for tidbits so that you don't have to, as I'm pretty busy till sometime next week. No doubt if you'd gone through the videos you'd find some meaningful tidbits to you. I've enjoyed lots that I haven't posted here: Stephen Kupka (Tower of Power), Norbert Putnam, Lieber-Stoller, Gamble-Huff, Tito Puente, Bernard Purdie, and lots lots more. Most are 4-5 minutes, but some go for an hour.
I seem to be the video reporter these days. Tonight we watched "Isaac Stern: Life's Virtuoso" from Netflix. It's an American Masters production from 2000, and tells a lot more about him than I knew before. There are even a few pictures from Fred Plaut and Don Hunstein, who were credited in the "Photos" section at the end. At least one was in 30th St that I recognized but not showing the studio at all. Here is a pretty good quality Youtube copy if you want to watch it: I had no idea that he was taken out of school at 8 y.0. to concentrate on the violin. In other news, I got to spend a lot of time this weekend on 30th St. pictures and the Columbia Records employees spreadsheet. I cleaned up over 1500 pictures of people who I don't know names, and added nearly 100 people to the spreadsheet, with pictures from Al Q. It was a good weekend. I'll post some unknown people this week and put your amazing research abilities to work...
Here is the verbatim Obit for Paul Tyler Turner aka Bishop Alexander Turner Western Rite from the Electric Railroaders Association Headlights magazine Nov/Dec 1970 issue but published actually in January 1972. "The formative days of most clubs and organizations are often characterized by a good deal of camaraderie and conviviality. ERA was no exception. One of its many "characters" as he was known to his fellow railfans was Paul Tyler Turner (ERA No. 208). In fact he was Bishop Alexander of the Order of St. Basil (Eastern Orthodox) and editor of their periodical The Basilian. He died on October 27, 1971 at age 66. He was a tireless worker at the Association's original headquarters on Manhattan's East Side where after meetings he frequently entertained at the pipe organ, sometimes accompanying movie films depicting trips over electric railways in a style highly reminiscent of silent cinema days. He had a keen sense of humor and enjoyed reciting an incident during the Second World War when his camera and film were seized by the authorities after he had photographed a fast interurban train on the Chicago North Shore and Milwaukee. When it was learned that his religious attire was genuine and not a disguise, the camera and film were returned and he received a profound apology along with a ride back to the North Shore right of way."
Awesome! Thank you!!!!! As a result of your post, I've sent a note to the Basilian Journal requesting any information they might have about him, if that's the right place. So let me get this straight: The Electric Railroad Association's original headquarters was on Manhattan's East Side, just like 30th Street, and it had facilities for him to play a pipe organ, as well as show movie films? That sounds like quite the headquarters! I've sent the ERA a note, too, asking for further information about him and their headquarters. It would be funny if it were somehow upstairs at 30th St. or in the Armenian Orthodox Church around the corner. Thanks so much for finding and posting his obit, which opens up more questions.
I have to assume the average building on the East Side did not have a pipe organ so the possibilities outside large churches are few.
I'm going through the thread trying to compile Tyler Turner's history, which I think we know a lot of tantalizing tidbits about, and looked closer at this post and picture, which I assume you found on the Stokowski website. I was hoping to find a bigger version, so I can add Richard Gilbert to my Columbia People spreadsheet, but this is the only size available there. In going through the discography, there is a listing for 3 November 1947 which shows a Leopold Stokowski and the New York Philharmonic recording, which came out at various times as (on 78) Columbia album M 729 matrices XCO-39271, XCO-39272 (on 33 1/3 LP) Columbia ML 2167 (on CD) Cala Records CACD 0534 It says it was recorded at 30th Street, but that is before the studio actually opened, I think, although William Savory and others said there were various tests of the space. The next Stokowski sessions recorded in 30th St, according to that discography, were 21 February 1949 21 March 1949, then not again till 9 April 1957 There are many sessions simply listed as "New York City", and I'm suspicious of one with Captain Kangaroo (CBS Television star) in 1959. Anybody have thoughts or more information about any of that? Or a larger size of that picture?
Reviews of the Cala CD for 1947 and 1949 that I see both state that recordings in 1947 were in Carnegie Hall and those in 1949 were in 30th St. So I don't know if Stokowski.org knows better or just made a mistake. Stokowski in New York 1 & 2 @www.classicalsource.com LEOPOLD STOKOWSKI As for Richard Gilbert he started out as a classical music reviewer in the 1930s. How he transitioned to record producer I don't know. He seems extremely obscure for some reason. He seems to have been associated with the RCA Boston Symphony recordings. At a classical music forum Gilbert is mentioned working with Macklin Marrow as co Producer then taking over as RCA BSO Producer until his departure to CBS. I found him listed for a Nov 5 1946 recording of a Weber Overture with Koussevitsky. I can find nothing after he left CBS in 1950.
My money would be on "mistake". Yes, he was only at Columbia from November 1949 to sometime in 1950. What was that all about? David Oppenheim started in 1950, so either he was hired when Richard bailed or he came in and Richard left. There is correspondence between Goddard and "Richard and Charlotte Gilbert" in Goddard's papers, but since it's addressed to the wife as well my guess would be that it's a holiday party invitation or some such. (I have no knowledge of Goddard's papers' content.) Thanks for finding this stuff out. I'm having a great time learning these things about these people.
Here is a link to a review Richard Gilbert did in 1930 in Disques magazine. His article concerns Hector Berlioz. Full text of "Disques - October 1930" The odds are he was born sometime between 1890 and 1900. Its unlikely he would be invited to write such articles under the age of 30 at minimum. If it was nearer 1890 then he would have been in his 50s during the war and close to 60 in 1950. In the picture he looks in his 50s or certainly late 40s. In that case he might have taken ill or "retired" to some teaching or journalist post. He certainly drops off the map after he leaves CBS Masterworks which is curious since he was the corporate director.
