History of CBS Records 30th Street Studio NYC (many pictures)

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by DMortensen, Oct 21, 2014.

  1. lukpac

    lukpac Senior Member

    Location:
    Milwaukee, WI
    But there are other rooms that we've seen in photos and videos that have to have been somewhere in the area of the main control room. I want to say we've seen glimpses of at least 2 that don't seem to have been studio space (nor the machine room).

    Interesting, I don't recall ever seeing these. Presumably the window was added at the same time the new control room was built.

    There's a shot from the same day in the Don Hunstein book taken from the northwest corner of the studio. That's color. This shot, only not cropped and much larger:

    [​IMG]

    I've seen different crops of the shot in Sessions With Sinatra, but at the moment I can't find one that's significantly better quality.
     
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  2. DMortensen

    DMortensen Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Seattle, WA USA
    True, but the only unknown space is around the new control room, and as Gary's drawing shows, the only largish space big enough for both a studio and control room (albeit small ones) is to the West of the Control Room.

    The "terra incognita" area has shrunk in size but is still big enough to hold a couple of small rooms.

    Also, we're now discussing usage of the space at one particular time range; it's important to remember that the same space was likely used differently at different times, so the statements "there was one recording studio in 30th St and no other recording spaces" (or similar as in the Wikipedia), and "there were two studios in 30th St, Studio C and Studio D" could both be true over the course of its life.
     
  3. lukpac

    lukpac Senior Member

    Location:
    Milwaukee, WI
    I'm not sure I agree. Unlike the main studio, where we have lots of views all around and can deduce a pretty detailed layout, we really only have vignettes of the front portion of the building, especially beyond the main control room. And none of those vignettes are (to my knowledge) actually of studio space or another control room.

    I keep watching Elaine Stritch walk out of one of those mystery spaces, and I can't for the life of me figure out where it was. Beyond "somewhere in the front of the building" that is.

    There's also the mystery space (closet?) between the studio and machine room, FWIW.
     
  4. GLouie

    GLouie Forum Resident

    Location:
    Seattle
    I wonder if what we think is Studio D was originally envisioned as an iso booth of some sort, with windows to the control room and Studio C for eye contact. Then they decided later that they were never going to do that, and removed the windows to the NRC and studio C.
     
  5. lukpac

    lukpac Senior Member

    Location:
    Milwaukee, WI
    Interesting thought, although I think that was a bit before iso booths were really a concept, and I can't imagine 30th Street ever being the place for one.
     
  6. DMortensen

    DMortensen Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Seattle, WA USA
    Yes, but for some reason they clearly thought it would be important to have eye contact between the control room, through a little hallway, and into the other room. Important enough to put windows in.

    Alternatively, it could have been so someone in the hallway could see what was going on in the various rooms.

    Obviously, after living with it for some period of time, the windows between the big studio and the littler room were removed, as well as the window between the hallway and big control room.

    Maybe they didn't like random heads appearing at the window and watching what was going on while they were in the creative process?
     
  7. GLouie

    GLouie Forum Resident

    Location:
    Seattle
    Does it seem (in Company) that the floor right in front of the New Control Room glass is a step, maybe 2, down from the console/outboard/patch panel and rear doors? Sondheim seems to rise a lot as he moves.

    Does it seem like the door to the studio (west) is on this level, opens inward, then goes out to Studio C (down 2 more steps)? And to the east of the glass there's a door with a doorknob and some acoustic tile on its front. A closet?

    This infers that the level of the console etc. is a good 3-4 steps above the studio. The blueprints show no elevation steps on the first floor, so any rise has to be built up. Also, some built-up floor is needed for cabling, and/or floating the floors. I'm guessing that any entry to the NRC near 30th st. would need some steps to get you up to the level of the console.

    Also in Company, I stepped through the part where Elaine Stritch has her dog. Obviously she's in a room with a tape recorder in it, maybe old and little used, or maybe for 2 track transfers or old gear storage. She pushes out through a door with no knob (I assume a high traffic door), into a vestibule, and immediately to her right looks like another doorway (dark, but with maybe a switch or thermostat on the wall inside), and straight through another doorway (the frame seen at the top) and perhaps a guy holding the 2nd door open for her. Further ahead, there is a bit of wall on the right, then another door on the right, and blank wall straight ahead. Where this could fit into the known space, I could only guess.
     
  8. lukpac

    lukpac Senior Member

    Location:
    Milwaukee, WI
    Sondheim does take a step down at 7:59 as he leaves the control room. The transition seems to be where the white pegboard to the left of the door butts up to the gray squares.

    Unfortunately you can't see much relevant around 22:40 when Sondheim and George Furth are talking in front of the console and subsequently walk out into the studio.

    At 32:52 Fred Plaut is patching cables, and we can see into the machine room. It *seems* like the floor is black linoleum, rather than raised panels, although it's possible the linoleum is on top of the panels.

    The mono Ampex AG350 next to the door doesn't have any tape on it, but it's *on*, FWIW. Which implies it sees somewhat regular use.

    Also noteworthy is Stritch steps down after walking out the door. It seems maybe her first step out the door is at the level, but her next step is down.

    If the framing on this was just a bit wider...

    [​IMG]
     
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  9. GLouie

    GLouie Forum Resident

    Location:
    Seattle
    Also noting in Company that there is enough room down by the glass window to set up folding chairs and have people sitting there. But someone taped a corner cushion to the left speaker for people exiting to the studio!
     
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  10. lukpac

    lukpac Senior Member

    Location:
    Milwaukee, WI
    Clearly the only answer is for Pennebaker to release Company as a Blu-ray with extensive outtake footage, amirite?
     
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  11. MMM

    MMM Forum Hall Of Fame

    Location:
    Lodi, New Jersey
    Have you gotten any feedback on your layout from Jim Reeves, Don Puluse, etc., ?
     
  12. DMortensen

    DMortensen Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Seattle, WA USA
    That layout is still fresh, and I haven't sent a note out to the 30th St group.

    My daughter is getting married this weekend and we are swamped starting today for a week, so my participation will stop for a while. That's also partially why a note hasn't yet been sent out.

    Just a few minutes ago worked out almost final details for the Dolby theater showing of "Company", with live commentary by Tom Shepard and me at the AES Convention, so that is nice.
     
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  13. GLouie

    GLouie Forum Resident

    Location:
    Seattle
    Gads, viewing Pennebaker's outtakes frame-by-frame would probably solve dozens of questions, but so would construction papers and permits from CBS and NYC.

    If anyone has 16mm film, I have access to an Elmo TRV-16H for digitizing into NTSC for free, which is a good price even if not HD Rank-Cintel.

    I'll let DanM approach those that were there when he's able. It might seem odd that we haven't gotten more details from those folks, but as a practical matter, I can't remember a lot of things I did 40 years ago either, let alone if there were steps, doors or whatever.
     
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  14. MMM

    MMM Forum Hall Of Fame

    Location:
    Lodi, New Jersey
    Congratulations on both counts, Dan. :cheers:
     
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  15. GLouie

    GLouie Forum Resident

    Location:
    Seattle
    As DanM noted years ago, maybe enough floor space in front of the NCR console to pull up your feet. Or put your feet on top of a chair back? We think there's a step/drop there somewhere.
     
  16. GLouie

    GLouie Forum Resident

    Location:
    Seattle
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  17. lukpac

    lukpac Senior Member

    Location:
    Milwaukee, WI
    I haven't seen anything lately, but it appears he was still granting interviews a year ago:

    https://www.filmcomment.com/blog/interview-d-a-pennebaker/

    Once again, unfortunately, I don't think it's going to be feasible for me to join, but I certainly hope Dan is able to document things somehow.
     
  18. DMortensen

    DMortensen Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Seattle, WA USA
    Thanks, Martin.
     
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  19. DMortensen

    DMortensen Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Seattle, WA USA
    I've sent a couple emails to their office, and called once and talked with the right person. No response since.

    I'm going to try a couple more times. He is such a wonderful filmmaker that I think it would be fascinating to hear his thoughts.

    Note that if you have the DVD there is commentary from him which is indeed fascinating.
     
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  20. GLouie

    GLouie Forum Resident

    Location:
    Seattle
    Digging up old stuff while reviewing....I am not familiar with the background panels being used at 30th st?
     
  21. lukpac

    lukpac Senior Member

    Location:
    Milwaukee, WI
    As noted, those photos are at 799 Seventh Avenue.
     
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  22. GLouie

    GLouie Forum Resident

    Location:
    Seattle
    Damn, so hard to keep up with every correction....
     
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  23. GLouie

    GLouie Forum Resident

    Location:
    Seattle
    A little more evidence making me think there's a door and a window across a hall outside the New Control Room (NCR) west side:

    Comparing Dan's photos of Kipnis and a similar angle in post 2090, both top and bottom of a window are seen. Next, in the Asian woman photo, now I see all of the door hardware including the half-moon push plate just below the dead bolt, like all the other push doors in the NCR area. I do not see a pull handle. As Dan noted a long time ago, most of the window reflections are the machine room, and the thickness of the double walls and glazing are apparent.

    This could NOT be Elaine Stritch's doors, since she pushed her door out to exit her room, the door being hinged on the other side, then into a vestibule and a step down or 2. And you wouldn't have a vestibule with a push-in and push-out doors opposing. Too bad, it would've been convenient for her to access her dog right there. But maybe the control room is further to the left down the hall. Also, windows (and maybe doors) were changed over the years.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
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  24. GLouie

    GLouie Forum Resident

    Location:
    Seattle
    Regarding the Moog photos in Dan's Feb 2018 post:
    Any chance this unit is from Tom Z. Shepard and Andy Kazdin's 1973-ish album that Doug Pomeroy mentioned recording in Studio D? I looked further on the thread and did not see a consensus.

    Everything You Always Wanted to Hear on the Moog*
    *But Were Afraid to Ask

    Wendy Carlos' site mentions Columbia buying a Moog just for that album.
    Wendy Carlos Open Letter 4

    Conjecturing, if the Moog is shown in "Studio D", perhaps the control room is seen through the double glazing-gap-double glazing. It would be easy for Fred to walk down the hall for a pic. The millwork etc. looks appropriate.
     
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  25. lukpac

    lukpac Senior Member

    Location:
    Milwaukee, WI
    A few notes:

    - The window was removed by the time of Company, so those shots couldn’t have been from 1973 if that is in fact looking into the control room.

    - Unfortunately there don’t seem to be any photos at the right angle to see both, but it seems like the door and window had to have been almost right next to each other. Yet we can see a bit to the side of the window, and there’s no door (and seemingly not enough space for one behind the curtain in the corner).

    - The view through the window doesn’t seem to match up with the back wall of the control room.

    Still quite the mystery!
     

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