Homebrew cleaning question

Robb,

Yeah, I'm just not crazy about putting stuff on records. Obviously, the vinyl won't soak up the LAST preservative, so it just sits there. I've always figured it would eventually get on the labels from repeatedly removing/replacing the disc from/in the inner sleeve. Sounds messy. Besides, I've gotten along quite well without any treatments to date, which has covered an awful lot of spins.

I basically took the platter and bearing assembly out of an old Pioneer TT, and mounted it into a new stainless steel shallow drainage pan. I sealed up my mount and created a drain I can either stop or affix a small hose to. Turning the platter by hand on this monstrocity isn't too much trouble and I use a record clamp to keep the record secure. Pretty easy. I have a few mats I use on both this and the VPI to avoid cross-contamination. There are plenty of cheap and junked TTs out there to use for this, and it oughta extend the life of the VPI quite a bit. Just a sign of being a slave to vinyl I guess.

 

I think I'm one of the lucky few people in the U.S. to live in a soft water area. I looked on a map once, and the piedmont area of the east coast from Virginia down through Georgia has relatively soft water. Most of the rest of the country has hard water. I've never lived in an area that has hard water, so I'm not sure how to adapt to it. In any case, I use distilled water for rinsing records, although I have used tap water in the past for a rinse.

I'm struggling to recall if the LAST manufacturer claimed that it would improve the sound. I agree that it doesn't improve it, nor does it worsen it. The money used to buy LAST would be better spent elsewhere.

 

Nah, they could just use some Lime-Away on those crusty records. Piece of cake!

Probably doesn't hurt records. I think the big benefit is supposed to be extended record life, which would make sense. I could see how there might be some minor sonic benefit from improved tracking, but that would likely vary from system to system.

Good that John brought up record treatments, though. There has really been some nasty stuff out there in the past. Ever see those record cleaning cloths from the 1960s and 1970s that were impregnated with lubricating crap? Apparently, those were horrendous, leaving behind stuff that would eventually form a film. Once it's there, it's pretty much there to stay. That's essentially what those EMITEX cloths were that were advertised on the inner sleeves of UK EMI LPs. I don't recall what it was, but I remember reading about a treatment that was highly touted in the audiophile press in the late 1970s that did the same thing...pretty much junked a lot of records. I believe it was Stereophile that at one point recommended applying ArmorAll to records as a tweak. That ended up not panning out so well for those who tried it.

 

Hi Arin,

I'll see occasional records at trade shows that have been treated with LAST. It's quite easy to tell they've been treated, but I'm used to what it looks like on some of my own records. I once had the urge to get the LAST substance off my records, but I didn't think a wash would work, so I stopped worrying about it. The only one I'm really second guessing my treatment of is a MoFi Donald Fagen Nightfly in stone-cold mint condition. The vinyl has a different sheen now than the standard JVC vinyl look. I really don't think it has negatively affected the sound, though.

That record cleaning setup sounds great....I've thought about using my standard felt mat from the turntable to clean on, or possibly a cut piece of shelf liner, which also happens to make a good turntable mat!

 

Whatever you use, have a couple so you don't end up putting a cleaned side on something that has had a dirty side on it. Clean on clean, dirty on dirty...no cross-contamination.

You don't think LAST preservative would clean off? I bet it would with a few cleanings. I've seen some LPs that had those little LAST stickers affixed to the labels. I guess they came with the stuff so you could tell what you had and hadn't treated. I definitely couldn't bring myself to start putting stickers on everything! I had a Nautilus "Summer Breeze" like that. It didn't look like anything was dried on it. Wish I still had it. I'd try cleaning it and report back.

By the way, the original Warner Bros. green label pressing topped it, FWIW.

 

Lime-Away....hmmm, gotta try it.

I used to put the LAST stickers on the inside of my LP sleeves. They did come with more than enough stickers so you could identify which LPs you'd treated. I did it with most of my favorites, and while I can't prove any benefits, those LPs have performed admirably for 20 years now. My Shure V15V-MR is a good tracker to begin with, so lowering distortion with the fluid probably made a miminal difference at best.

I do remember those record cleaning cloths. Ugh. I think I used one, one time at the most, on an older, very dirty LP...and it made it worse.

At the first audio show I attended (I was a mid-teen, so it was probably late 70's--John Klemmer's "TOUCH" on MoFi had just been released), one room had a "cleaner" that attached to a turntable. Well, it wasn't a cleaner so much as a fluid bath, where you were basically playing wet grooves with the stylus. I can only imagine what that did to the vinyl...and the cartridges.

Relics from the past: my grandfather used to have a Shure M44 cartridge on his Garrard, and he had also fitted it with one of those cleaning brushes that stuck out the front of the tonearm. Plus, he used to have something that was basically a 3" velvet pad that he would dampen and use to clean off the records.

 

I guess I do think LAST could be removed by judicious cleaning, but I have not tried one yet. Maybe alcohol would do the trick. Seriously, I should give it a shot.

I used those LAST stickers all the time! They were kind of cute. I only affixed them to the outer plastic sleeve, though. I wouldn't put them on the record itself. I have had some records come out better than others when it comes to that LAST sheen. It all depends upon how steady my hand was when I slid the velvet-lined plastic applicator across the record. I treated about 40 records over time, at which point I stopped. It was tedious. I used my tedious time cleaning records instead. Many a lonely day I spent, upstairs in the music parlor, with headphones attached and vacuum a-whirling, trying to drown out the searing vacuum noise with music.

Those Warner Bros. pressings from that era are outstanding.

 

Don't get me wrong, I certainly don't mean to imply you should clean off LAST...I'm just guessing you probably could if you ever wanted to. Heck, it doesn't sound like it's caused any problems.

Right on about those late 1960s/early 1970s WB LPs, plenty of good pressings from that time.

 

I will fess up. I used LAST for about 10 years pretty religiously. Before I had my VPI I also used their power cleaner. The LAST #2 is not in the least bit messy, so Arin you really have the wrong impression about the stuff. Most of it evaporates quite quickly and there is a noticable film left behind. It doesn't rub off or anything like that. So there is no mess at all.

Sonically I don't think LAST #2 does anything. It really just comes down to the record wear issue since it doesn't affect the sonics. I always figured that its easy enough to test play an LP a few hundred times and make some measurements on the groove integrity. If the stuff works it would be fairly straightforward to prove. I always used the stuff as insurance because an individual could never do an objective test. Even if you played a record 100 times you would never notice a slow degradation in the sound unless you had another record (unplayed) to compare it to. Recently I just didn't want to pay the $30 for a bottle when I can't imagine playing a record even 20 times. I still might go back to it though.

If you have a VPI cleaner putting the stuff on is easy. Just start the turntable and hold the applicator on the record. It spreads fairly evenly. And yup I used the stickers. I put them on the inner sleeve so I knew which ones I treated. I do the same thing now with the Disc Doctor system where I put a small green sticker on it to remided me that its been deep cleaned.

 

Thanks for sharing, John. Nice to have input from somebody who's had extended experience with LAST #2. Doesn't sound like there's any problem with it, apart from the film, which seems a purely visual effect. Given some of the treatments that have been marketed in the past, I'm sure you can understand my uncertainty about anything applied to records. I wonder if anybody here has tried Gruv-Glide?

I mark my cleaned records, too. I put everything into mylar resealable outer sleeves, so I just put a little blank white labelling sticker on the back of the mylar sleeve. Otherwise, I'd lose track!

I think I'm where you are now, though. I just can't see wearing out too many records at this point. I guess the more you get, the more spread out your playing becomes...not to mention having plenty of CDs around to spread it out even further. Once you get to a certain point, 20 plays WOULD go a long way...and that's nowhere near wearing anything out. Good thread.

 

Would any automotive vinyl cleaning, restore and protectant products be of use for cleaning records?

I have many records from when I was a teenager and not into cleaning much.

 

No. Record cleaning fluids are specially formulated for records, although more research has gone into some than others. Either way, we're talking apples and pears here...two entirely different applications. Remember, one has to be able to completely remove cleaning fluid after use, and automotive products aren't going to come off entirely. They'll leave a residue of some sort.

 

(moved post to new thread)