Honeymooners fans Info. About Incredible World of Ed Norton sketch

Discussion in 'Visual Arts' started by Frank Gannucci, May 22, 2020.

  1. Frank Gannucci

    Frank Gannucci Well-Known Member Thread Starter

    I asked on the around about this episode of the Jackie Gleason Show and how one trader had a copy of the first half of the episode and yet the second half was different. This was cloggedmind's reply

    “The copy I have is a b&w kinescope, and it runs just shy of 46 minutes. The date provided on the dvdr menu claims it is from 12-11-69 which is not the case. The first half touting something "special" with Carney would the be 1-17-70, and the last half spliced in from the 1969 episode which features Frank Gorshin and Max Bygraves.

    Now, why is that? Well, it is all speculation and I, for one, do not believe the "it was so awful Gleason cut it to protect Carney's reputation," and so on. What I do believe is that, having traded, bought and sold a few collector prints of various films, and having owned (and still do!) a few obscure homebrew telecine copies of third and fourth-hand films, it could be:

    a) A Mistake. Simply, when cobbling together a full-length program to dupe for armed forces, personal archiving, or overseas sales, mis-matched elements were used. Hell, I got a couple of 16mm Stooges film prints that have The End titles spliced in from the wrong eras, and even some of those Screen Gems logo plastered hack jobs (a widescreen era Columbia Pictures logo, tacked on one!).

    b) A rights issue. Quite often, for unspecified reasons (usually involving $$) authors may choose to not allow programs to be shown, sold, traded or otherwise. It happens, and it could have happened when JG's folks were making these film copies.

    c) Lost elements. Broken or ruined footage may have been replaced. Or, with so few copies in circulation, someone may have taken a shine to that particular footage, hoping to retire upon its later "discovery" and subsequent sale to the right person. So they put in something else laying around to fill time. This kind of cut and paste leads to the next possibility:

    d) Hoarding. This happens too often in the film collectors' circles. One gets hold of rare footage and is scared to let anyone near it for fear of devaluing the material. Best examples I know of are things like the Three Stooges Cartoon/live action combo films "Stooges Scrapbook" and "The Spain Mutiny". People have them but will not share, sell or allow viewing. 2 people have also claimed in the last 12 years to have superior 16mm copies of the Stooges' swansong "Kook's Tour" but allegedly could not agree on a ransom price.

    I would guess it is a combination of A and D, with someone subbing in some footage and selling the print as is. I'd bet somewhere long ago, someone knew they had something rare and cannibalized the footage. The kinescope ends with Johnny Olsen reminding you to tune in to the Honeymooners next week, and it has the Bressler/Duddy song credit which hints at it maybe coming from another Honeymooners episode, which would be incorrect, as well, and flown in from separate elements

    AND, the print just runs out as broken film. Poof. Proving (?) that the elements were kinda iffy anyway.

    Frustrating, but there you have it.

    The search continues!”

    Really a shame that this episode is very, very hard to find. Hopefully, SOMEONE has this sketch. I know of one trader that I dealt with who lived (Or maybe he still lives there) in the Tampa area that claimed that he had the Incredible World sketch but he burned me. Hopefully someone has it.
  2. cloggedmind

    cloggedmind Forum Resident

    Looking back on that, I think it’s mostly “d”. Somebody got greedy and withheld the Carney bit from that kinescope in hopes of scoring a nice ransom later on.

    The pilot is likely sitting on a shelf with “do not air” instructions, tied up in legal this-and-that.
  3. Frank Gannucci

    Frank Gannucci Well-Known Member Thread Starter

    In regards to Incredible World, I did speak to the guy who runs atvaudio.com. He has the audio of five of the short color Honeymooners sketches. I got the audio of them LOOOOOONG BEFORE Time Life released them and during a time when Jackie Gleason’s daughter said In 2014 that the chances of them getting released were slim and none. The guy who runs atvaudio,com told me that one time He had the audio of all seven color sketches and the Incredible World but the audio soundtrack to two of the color clutches and Incredible World got damaged due to a flood.

    Hopefully, SOMEONE has this.
    cloggedmind likes this.
  4. Frank Gannucci

    Frank Gannucci Well-Known Member Thread Starter

    Oooops. Sorry. I typed clutches instead of SKETCHES. I’m not an idiot. I swear.
    siebrand likes this.
  5. siebrand

    siebrand Forum Resident

    OK. But... Congrats.
    Your last post was number 30.000 in Visual Arts.
  6. Frank Gannucci

    Frank Gannucci Well-Known Member Thread Starter

    Thank you very much.

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