"Horrible Elton John remasters" a myth?

Ever since I joined our forum I learned immediately the dogma that Elton's 1995 Gus Dungeon remasters sound horrible and I should search for DJMs, MFSLs and other rare and OOP versions. So I did. I was immediately impressed by DJMs huge dynamic range but after repeated listens was never happy 100 with the way mid range and highs sounded, at least on some albums (Elton John LP is incredible in every way!). I only had Tumbleweed Connection on the remaster and was always suprised how strangely good it sounded when it was supposed to slash my poor ears. I tried the SACDs and found them badly compressed.

So yesterday I took a couple of my friend's mini-vinyls (which use the 95 mastering) and compared them to my DJM Honky Chateau and Caribou. And you know what? They sound great. Not as dynamic as DJMs but by no means brickwalled. The meter on my McIntosh amp keeps jumping and the dynamic range is far bigger than on most modern remasters (that got praised here) if not as jaw droppingly huge as on DJMs, however in every other aspect the remasters sound better than DJMs - more full and rich in midrange, more believable, deeper better bass and much clearer and smoother on the highs. DJM's of these 2 titles have some harsh character on the upper mids, particulary on horns and guitars that even my wonderful new McIntosh 301 player doesn't diminish. I did an extencive comparison on almost every track and prefered the mini's for simple old fashioned music listening. For the audiophile "WOW! Check out how Nigel Olsson jumps out of the speakers!" DJMs still rule. But by all means it's not a black'n'white comparison and Elton's remasters, while not perfect sound bloody good by all standarts by which we judge remasters here. Anyone else feels that 95 Elton's are unjustly bashed while DJM's are just a bit overrated?

 

For Honky Chateau, I doubt that any version can beat the MFSL. The DJM CD is nothing special.

For Caribou, I have not heard any other version besides the DJM. Could somebody put up one or two samples from the 1995 remaster for a comparison?

The DJM CDs that absolutely rule are Elton John (West German CD), Madman Across The Water and Don't Shoot Me I'm The Piano Player.

 

I bought most of the 1995 remasters and I think they're ok.

Prefer the sound of the 1990 To Be Continued set though,

 

me

 

i think this box set sounds pretty fine too....

 

I don't have anything to compare it to, but the SACDs and 1995 remasters sound great to my ears. I really can't think of a reason to buy Elton's catalogue all over again.

 

SACDs sound way too compressed to me. I prefered the 95 remasters each time. They are much more open sounding.

 

Nothing wrong with the 95 remasters, just that there is a certain peakiness that's annoying in the midrange.

 

I'm a big fan of the SACDs. I'm mostly a fan of the 5.1 surround mixes themselves. Honky Chateau is my favorite, sounding absolutely stunning in this format. Every time I hear the SACD I can't believe it was recorded all those years ago-Breathtaking!

 

You prefer the 95 remasters to the SACD Stereo layer, or the SACD redbook layer?

 

If the '95 remasters you are referring to are the Rocket ones, I think they sound horribly loud.

 

I made the same point in another Elton thread awhile back. I agree the Rockets get an overly bad rap around here. Nevertheless, whenever I've compared I have preferred the earlier discs (MCA or DJM). The biggest difference to me is dynamics which are definitely lacking in the Rockets.

 

I always thought the 95 discs sounded very loud, brittle and harsh. Once I rebought the older MCA's or MFSLs. I A/B'd them again and still found the '95 Gus dics to be harsh to my ears. All my opinion of course and to each his own.

 

I don't mind the remasters. I've heard far worse. I think the Elton catalog was recorded well enough so that most anything sounds pretty good.

 

I think the '95 remasters are pretty bad.

 

The Rocket remasters I have heard (MADMAN, HONKY) sound nothing at all like the original DJM UK vinyl or CDs. The Rocket remasters aren't unlistenable but they still sound very much like modern CDs - louder, more harsh in the upper midrange, and ultimately as a result, fatiguing. I'll pass.

Also agree with Andreas' comment about the MFSL HONKY CHATEAU - it is superb, much better than even the original DJMs. And Steve's DCC vinyl version of MADMAN is also by far the best sounding version of that title. But again the original UK versions of both are still quite nice.

 

It's strange - I found DJMs to be seriously harsher in the mids and highs and lacking in bass compared to the remasters. Different players or different ears? Who knows?

 

I think that redbook layer actualy uses the 95 mastering. Or maybe the newer japanese mini-vinyls have improved mastering over the standart 95 jewel cases?

 

We need a Laser-Drop Wiki as someone has done for the Bowie cd's.

 

You find the SACD layer compressed more than the 95 remasters?

 

Antonkk, are't you just hearing the format differences and the old ADCs used on the DJM CDs here?

 

Much, much more compressed. I don't think that 95 remasters are seriously compressed at all. Not as dynamic as DJMs but much more dynamic than most remasters on the market, including some widely acclaimed here.

 

What's an ADC? Both DJM and Gus' remasters are plain redbook CDs. No format differences here.

 

Here's a clip of a Captain Fantastic laserdrop I made. It is done directly from the SACD layer, no EQ or anything save downsampling: http://rapidshare.com/files/110927178/Captain_Fantastic_1_.flac.html

 

ADC = Analog to Digital Converter.