How Bad can ones stereo equipment be.....

I think that most of the guys in the two music listening/appreciations groups in which I’ve been an active participant for years consist of mainly high-end financial market operators, mutual fund managers, partners in law firms, medical professionals, researchers and a few somewhat less luxuriously monied kibitzers like me. Not a McIntosh among them, ever.

Most of the guys I listen with spend big money on gear - seriously large coin - but don’t do so until they’ve reduced their preferred dealer to a puddle of vapor from endless rounds of questions about a component’s compatibility, warranty, efficacy for their existing system and on and on. Even my eyes start to glaze over after a while when some of the boys are getting prepping to pull the trigger on a new DAC or a new preamp or something. After the ten or twelfth audition, it starts to get really old. The resulting systems - and the upgrades over the years - are all truly terrific. Still no McIntosh though.

In Toronto, McIntosh is certainly pricey enough, but it can be found in a couple of different showrooms alongside mid-priced components and brand name systems. It’s considered high-end to some extent - just - but not really a destination for most of the wealthier audiophiles I know and meet. It’s bound to be bit different in different cities and regions I guess.

 

Upgrading source components to a higher level is generally less of an issue than upgrading downstream components such speakers or amplifiers. I think that upgrading speakers without upgrading a source component has the most potential to cause trouble as that may tend to reveal shortcomings upstream. Upgrading a turntable only creates an opportunities to also upgrade amps and speakers, but a lesser amp and speaker only limits how much of the improved sound quality of a better TT that you can hear.

 

That's so great to hear. Some inexpensive equipment actually sounds quite musical. I was doing speaker demos with my iPhone as a source (Qobuz/Audioquest Jitterbug/Audioquest Dragonfly Red DAC) so I could have consistency in the quality of my source. When listening on the speakers that I eventually got, I literally had a 'Wow' moment as I had no idea that music from iPhone could sound that good through good speakers (with decent amplification).

On the other hand, some of the equipment that Stereophile calls 'Class A' sounds very unmusical to me. Yes, from an "objective" analytical perspective, the sound reproduction from some of these $100,000+ systems is great, but what is being reproduced neither sounds musical nor is it moving in the way you describe the music played by your grandson's system.

 

In South Florida, things are different than in the high priced cities. Condos, townhouses and homes are generally roomy.

Most people with money buy expensive things because they can, not because they are very knowledgable about the Particular item.

Down here you can buy Mac's in the local Best Buy.

Very few people I know or have ever met, and I'm speaking over the course of many years, have little or no real knowledge of audio or electronics in general.

Scary, but true...

 

Being an audiophile and a music lover is often frustrating. My system will sound absolutely amazing on well recorded material. But it’s at a level that average to poor recordings are presented as they are. This can leave me flat even if the music is great. I actually prefer listening to those kind of recordings on my lesser gear because I’m not judging the sound quality and can enjoy the music more.
On the other hand a great recording on my main system can transport me and leave me in awe. It’s a trade off but one that sometimes frustrates.

 

I'm betting that most on this Forum have systems not of particularly "audiophile quality". I've noticed that lots of folks don't fill out their profiles, thus leading me to fill in the blanks with the thought they've got average, consumer-grade gear.

Now, before you leap to concluding I'm an audio snob, let me tell you that I think any reasonably practical person can buy a decent system for modest cash at Best Buy, Video Only, Crutchfield or similar. Something to play music on, and not get caught up in audiophile obsessions.

 

you said really well ...
If what comes into your ears pleases you, there is no reason to replace something of your HiFi.
at that point it is better to invest in quality LP / CD, because there is a huge difference between a good stereo system with well produced records, and a good HiFi with poor quality software ...

 

it's a beautiful story, absolutely.
but ... who is going to stay in that house ... will be happy, with all the helpers sitting and listening rather than helping with the cleaning?

 

I'd just add that most musicians I know concern themselves with the performance generally, over sound concerns. I'm a musician myself, but am a bit of an outlier with the better part of $10k in a system. I contracted an expensive case of audiophilia a couple decades ago -- my musical abilities didn't give me immunity, ha!

 

Which is what many of them do...

 

You could own a highly praised 1 Million Dollar system.

But if you listen to it in a tiled bathroom its still gonna sound like a tiled bathroom.

Your system is a small part of the jigsaw, the room is the bigger of the pieces.

Id rather have a mediocre system in a good room that a great system in a mediocre room.

Headphone systems are obviously another story.

 

Many of my all time favorite records were recorded in people's bedrooms. I don't need a "revealing" audiophile system for them.

If someone just handed me $100,000 to build a new system from scratch, I'd spend ten grand on the system and ninety on records.

 

One cannot have too many records.

 

Well the problem is that I wouldn’t trade listening to the portion of my collection that sounds good to amazing on my system for anything!

 

Adding up the MSRP of my set-up puts the total cost up around $10K (though I saved a bunch by getting several key components lightly used), and I absolutely love the way it sounds, although I suspect some audiophile snobs would murmur "mid-fi" after looking at my equipment list.

One of my favorite things has been to go to hi-fi shows like the Rocky Mountain Audio Fest and hear the latest and greatest, the horns speakers the size of VW bugs, the Magicos and Wilsons and Sonus Fabers, the huge monoblocks and anaconda-sized cables, and to sit in hotel demo rooms marveling at the ingenuity and beauty on offer. But then I head home and fire up my gear, have a listen, and feel satisfied that my system holds it own and even betters some of the ridiculously expensive but sometimes off-kilter kit I just heard.

As far as I'm concerned, the point is to get past that 90-95% point of hi-fi excellence, where you can hear an accurate and deeply euphonious musical picture full of presence and subtle tonality, and let the rich bastards fight it out over that final 5-to-10% of ultra-revealing and vivid high-end power and realism.

 

I have to laugh every time I see a post on a message board that claims to "know" whether a system is "mid-fi" or "high-fi" based on the cost of the system. I've heard plenty of $100k+ systems at dealers and at shows that have components that sound like they were designed around items on an "audiophile" check list, but were exceptionally boring to listen to. A common flaw that I hear in these systems especially those with high powered amps is that they are off in their timing and sound lead-footed.

 

I often feel there are 3 type of people who buy sound systems:

1) those who just want background music for their day. Almost anything will do as long as it sounds good per their standards. Nothing wrong with this group. They know what they want.

2) audiophiles who can afford high priced equipment. I don’t know what price, it’s kind of like “you’ll know them when u see them”. But they love music and the equipment which faithfully reproduces the music. They also have a good bit of knowledge concerning the reproductive of music. They are looking to improve the sound of their system.

3) audiophiles who can not afford top notch equipment but buy the best they can. They may love music just as much as the 2nd group, and may know just as much about the hobby. But, for whatever reason, they are much more financially limited than group 2.

Group 3 is where I belong. I bought the best I could afford. I’m trying to learn more and I’m currently considering a poss upgrade. But I have to decide if it’s economically feasible.

It’s money or rather what one considers disposable income which makes the difference between 2 and 3. Will I let the bills go this month and buy that better amp?

Just my take on things.

 

if you aren't careful you can easily put together a horrible sounding entry to mid level system. an unrefined source plus a neutral underpowered to expectations solid state amp and highly neutral speakers is too easy to put together.
combine that kind of system with a live room and you have a recipe for sonic disaster. ask me how i know!
you have to shop for complementary, balanced components and it isnt always easy.

 

Mac around my area is relegated to upper level home theatre shops, best buy magnolia and a few good audio stores. not the norm among high end shops but not saying it shouldn't be.
mac amplification can sound better than anything with the right speakers. it can sound mediocre with the wrong ones.
best system i have ever heard was fronted by a mac tube dac, mac tube preamp and mac 1kw solid state mono blocs driving magico speakers. incredile on every level.

 

If there were interim groupings, I’d be at 2.7. What I’ve learned in terms of equipment purchases is to either time purchases for the week before Thanksgiving, when some sales start, or to buy an unsold model that is being upgraded. The second approach is how I acquired a Rotel 1570 integrated amp at significant discount as they introduced the 1572, as well as my recently ordered ELAC Uni-Fi bookshelves that are being cleared out in favor of the newly introduced second generation.

 

(Emphasis added) Yes, although I'll add that the architectural experiments from the 1930s or so on in removing walls to create interpenetrating space has precious little in common with the "open floor plan" concept that now dominates most domestic building. The play of space(s) as experimented with morphed into a developer and builder realization that less walls mean both a more spacious initial "feeling" (better marketability) and less building cost, both in terms of material and labor -- as well as being able to cram more apartments into smaller building footprints.

My older clients (I'm an architect) get it: they like walls ... both for hanging things, but also for keeping sanity -- open floor concepts are hard to entertain in, because messes like cooking cannot be hid behind closed doors. The younger ones are seduced by the idea of living as if in an artists loft, no matter that those arrangements had a very specific origin and history, and have so little to do with contemporary "imaginings" of the same. A true loft has a lot of square footage, and is open because so much of the floor plate is far from windows, which of course are a requirement for dwelling spaces.

Finally, the lack of walls has adverse effects on putting music into them. Looking into acoustics and space I've started to see the connections between visual pleasing arrangements (e.g., in terms of proportions and boundaries) and acoustically easy-to-fill rooms ... it's not that they're necessarily one in the same, but the overlap is significant.

Edit: so a corollary question with regard to sound: how bad can one's space be ...

 

Oh my, I feel the vapors coming on.

 

I want to point out that my comments were not intended to be judgmental to Mac products one way or the other.

Just that they are often bought by people who have money.

Those individuals are more often not who we would consider to be audiophiles.

 

Lets see it under a different light and I must say have never owned one.

Macs are expensive, even the cheap units are expensive so who is going to buy them?

Who is to say who is an audiophile?

How many people who own Macs do you actually know to say they don't qualify as audiophiles?

I have met some, not many but I have and they were what I would consider audiophiles.

 

McIntosh is nice. You get a few things for the price. Often autoformers, and an extra layer of automation, like a phono input that reads the voltage coming in and adjusts the gain. Those extra bits complicate things and add cost, but that's part of their market.