How Big is your Sweet Spot?

I find the "control" position dead center is very nice for analyzing relative instrument position on the sound stage.
Things sound nice and full and three dimensional there.
However I spent 50 years in the trenches between building studios for rich musicians and selling high end equipment in Manhattan.
MY IDEA of a sweet spot with box speakers is "It reaches all across the room into the next room---it sounds like you have a "Live Band" in there!"
My sweet spot is around 15 feet wide and at least that deep.
You can walk to the speakers and be on stage and then walk out into the living room and go find seats ANYWHERE in the concert hall.
ALL the seats are astonishing.
SOME give you a perspective that is "better" than sitting dead center in the "control spot."
And you get real solid full bandwidth 3D imaging waaay off center so go ahead and MOVE, it don't matter, the solid shapes of the band still stay right THERE.
When you sit dead center it's like BAM---here is the entire mix dead in front of you laid out in multi-miked full blown three dimensional glory.
Almost TOO focused and "present" and "clear" to be fun.
Especially hearing all that multi-mono miking that is going on.
In MY center you hear EVERYTHING.
Laid bare.
Don't get me wrong---I LOVE being in the driver's seat able to gauge the recording like a producer does.
But.
It ALSO sounds sexy over on the far right sitting on my sofa.
Things like multi-mono miking get a little "blended."
It sounds like I'm in a nice warm "bar-lounge" and I can STILL "see" the three dimensional stage, feel the "bloom" as the instruments are still in three dimensions and everything clearly separated even that far off center.
AND maybe I hear more of the drums which can be cool.
OR maybe the singers are all hanging out right next to me and that is cool with me.
MONO is DEAD in the center with no bleed even way off to the side.
Frankly in my case my system is full range and I PREFER having just one channel handle MONO so that the "imaging" is better.
So I turn off one speaker and only listen to the other in MONO.
But it also kicks butt if I run TWO speakers---but I DO get a bit of comb filtering as the two speakers COMPETE with each other.
Anybody else have BOTH perfect "professional" monitoring position "by the book" in the center AND have other favorite places to sit and listen where you get just as wrapped up in the music?
Anybody even TRYING to get there?
Anybody?
Am I the only guy that goes nuts having a sound stage so "real" it is just like live music?
I have been told that "that is IMPOSSIBLE---nobody can achieve that."
Then I did it and jaws drop.
I had an opera buff declare that NO system could sound "live" like hearing a real singer in Avery Fisher Hall singing real Opera.
Then I let him hear my system and he jumped out of his seat.
"There are real live PEOPLE over THERE" he declared.
'That is IMPOSSIBLE!"
Am I the ONLY ONE?
I keep hearing that recordings don't mimic real life very well.
That depends on the recording entirely over at MY HOUSE.
Some recordings are FRIGHTENING they sound so "real."
I love it.
Anybody else crazy like ME?
Included is a picture of my room.
My two cents...

 

What speakers are those? My speakers definitely don't have as wide a sweet spot as what you're talking about.

 

My speakers sound great throughout the house but whether that is a 'sweet spot' is up to interpretation.

My REAL sweet spot is pretty narrow but intense as my speakers go almost from wall to wall and with slight toe in provides a big wide soundstage and pretty good depth.

 

Do you have the speakers all super-glued together? How do the Harbeths not vibrate off of the two subwoofers on each side they are stacked on? Do you ever have to line them all back up or do the stacks stay put?

 

Do you always shout every other word? Betting people get annoyed with that.

 

Nope.
No super glue needed, the weight is sitting on sorbothane type pads that run the length of the front edge.
They haven't moved in a year.
And when removed not a mark is on either cabinet FYI.
I DO think about using industrial Velcro to strap them together in case I have a party of Yahoos over and they bump a speaker whilst dancing.
I will do that just for insurance someday but NO.
From a standpoint of alignment they are solid as a rock.

 

Ah that makes sense. Interesting approach.... how do you handle the crossovers between Harbeths and the sub units?

 

My sweet spot is around the sofa since I placed my room setup mic in multiple locations around my sofa when doing setup with my preamp. But system still sounds nice when I am in the kitchen....

 

hall of fame thread title

 

The SVS sealed subs originally came with parametric notch filters for Q SHAPE/FREQ/INTENSITY and separate "ROOM SIZE knob---4 settings from huge to little." Plus infinitely adjustable phase control and of course crossover frequency.
With all this control the 12" mid-bass part was easy except to also time align it to blend in with the Harbeth time-wise.
That meant first getting the Harbeth into the power loading spot for the room.
THEN placing the 12" SVS into alignment with THIS.
The settings could then work their magic.
As for the BIG 15" Velodyne it just is an el-cheapo vented unit that chufs a bit in the lowest regions for effect.
Not very HiFi I'm afraid
But it's cheap and it does a good job with limitations.
How's that for an answer?

 

Are those speakers stacked on top a suitable distance away from those windows...?

I assume so.

 

In answer to your question, "is anybody even trying to get there?" I would say "not me." Don't get me wrong-- it sounds like it's an amazing setup. I just don't have the chops to mess with room alignment, phase control, or crossover frequency. I just move stuff around until it sounds good to me. Sad, innit?

 

Only do headphones so it's pretty good.

 

I only got interested in shooting for the moon when I worked with this stuff everyday in Manhattan.
Price no object equipment that I would never own actually made images beyond what I was expecting from recordings.
So the deeper I fell down the rabbit hole the more my goal became to get the best "room sound" for the money.
I set a goal of $40K and attacked the problems one at a time.
Once I got a handle on speaker placement and how exact it has to be---then the hole just got way more interesting with phase alteration and crossover extension.
I haven't heard a well set up system other than my own which depresses me no end.After all this hobby was my livelyhood for 50 years.
I would have thought things would get better and Stereo would be three dimensional for some folks.
I wouldn't say soundfield placement is the ONLY important thing as frequency accuracy and "real live sound" is also a must.
But having stereo become a live room experience is something special.
Been working on that problem my whole life.
Sorry if I'm too far gone on the subject.
I just wanted to hear from anybody that has been as radicalized on the subject as I became.
I may be too far gone, yikes!

 

I'd be very concerned about using sorbothane anywhere near loudspeaker drivers. Someone I know thought it would be neat to fashion speaker gaskets out of the stuff for a set of high-end custom-designed speakers he built, using very high end drivers. After a number of years the sorbothane turned to a tar-like goop and oozed over and destroyed the drivers (and custom-built cabinets.) A definitive cause for the sorbothane turning into gluey tar has not been determined - which gives me even more reason to warn of its use anywhere near speakers / their drivers.

Read more here.

Jeff

 

Well the rubber mat I cut up to place under my speakers has not attacked me yet.
Not a mark.
Maybe it isn't Sorbothane.
It's just rubber.
Because it is a bit gooey and crushable I thought it was Sorbothane-like.
Boy.
I hope it isn't the actual brand.
Who knew rubber stuff could EAT your gear?
Double Yikes!

 

I love that every single one of Doctor Fine's posts reads like a haiku.
A hi-fi haiku.

 

Visions of "The Blob"!

 

The main reason that "audiophiles" do not have large sweet spots is that concept works against another audiophile construct, imaging.

I think that audiophiles in general are overly obsessed with imaging.

They more precise you image, the more point source your speakers have to be, the less interaction in a room they have and all of that translates down to a small imaging point.

This is why audiophiles are famous for "The Chair". The Chair is the one place in the entire room where the audiophile can sit, his head in a vise and enjoy his or her system's imaging.

Now, when we throw the concept of imaging out the window, many things can happen.

You can project sound and a soundstage all around the room. You can walk all over the room, you can turn all around in almost every direction and the room is filled with and pressurized with music.

I know, because I have been doing the same thing for years. I just do it differently.

Here is a view of the listening room taken from toward the north wall, looking toward the south wall.

The tower speakers on the right are the front mains that are used both for HT and stereo.

Now to my left, out of the frame, toward the front and the back are the rear tower's, which I use for both HT and stereo.

At the far right side of the frame, in partial view is a a passive commercial horn loaded sub.



If we panned over to the left, we would see the left rear tower speaker, as it would be oriented from a normal optimum 5.1 channel surround, while sitting on the green sofa, while viewing a movie.



The right rear tower would be slightly behind me and to my left. I am standing by the counter in the photo below, taking this photo.

And, I am standing in the center of the room, in front of the TV, taking this next photo, showing the left rear tower.

Both speaker's are sitting on top of credenza's so that they project out and over the furniture in the room.

With this arrangement, If I play the rear speakers along with the front speakers, there is sound all over the room.

But, it doesn't end there...



Now, here is where the fun part comes in...



If I go and sit on the tan sofa that is shown in the first photo, here is what I am seeing.

These are two vintage Altec Lansing, A7, Voice Of The Theater speakers. They are driven by an all tube chain (after the DAC if a digital source), while the other speakers are powered by solid state amplifier's.

If you are looking for realism, the A7's powered by a class "A" SET amplifier or by my little Decware 3.9-Watt Mini Torii SEP (Single Ended Pentode) amplifier.

These A7's, provide concert like sound, but they are not used alone.

I have the two front main tower's to my left and the two rear towers to my right, also projecting sound out into the room.

Any concept of "imaging" is completely gone. In its place is a soundstage the size of the room and with it, the ability to walk just about anywhere in the room, turn in any direction of the room and hear the music playing from everywhere.

Not a new or unusual concept with me.

 

That's why I put them in zip lock bags. Easy peasy no leaky.

 

Quad ESL ('57)- head in a vise narrow, but what magic if you are in the right place, at the right height (something that is often ignored as part of the calculus). My horns are wider dispersion, I sit at a greater distance, but there is still a difference (obviously) in off-axis response. I can energize the room in a way that makes that less noticeable, but a lot of my listening isn't done at high dB-- I'm after getting as complete a sonic picture as possible at fairly reasonable volume levels, with no need to 'crank it' to make it more visceral. (Sometimes, louder isn't better, it's just louder).

 

So you are aware of other instances of sorbothane turning to black tar? Can you provide more detail? It would be more than nice to establish under what circumstances this happens.

Jeff

 

No kidding.
MY sweet spot is huge

 

Wow! Very impressive.

Care to share your setup methodology?

 

Think I read horror stories on Amazon reviews so I just put them in bags and called it a day. They did seem to get stickier over time. Sorry for the thread hi-jack.

I think my soundstage is small FWIW. I find myself shifting in the sweet spot just to get it centered and am regularly adjusting the balance.