How far apart should speakers be?

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by Fishoutofwater, Nov 7, 2018.

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  1. Fishoutofwater

    Fishoutofwater Forum Resident Thread Starter

    I have noticed that many of you; judging by your photos, have your speakers quite close together. Is there a right or wrong to the distance between speakers. Just a thought on this horrible rainy and windy day
     
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  2. The FRiNgE

    The FRiNgE Forum Resident

    Rainy days are perfect for thoughts and questions, The distance apart affects the stereo image. Closer together reinforces the phantom center image, but not too close, as this will begin to be destructive to the image. Further apart tends to spread the stereo image. (but kind of artificially) The idea of stereo is to create a phantom three dimensional sound image, something like 3D glasses crate a visual hologram. Two eyes are required to see in 3D. (a person with only one eye has limited depth perception and can not see a 3D hologram image in 3D.. it appears two dimensional) Two ears are required also to hear in 3D. The two speakers should be arranged to direct sound to each ear to recreate a 3D effect. Headphones for example accomplish this, but less realistically.

    A well designed stereo speaker should have high enough directivity (love that word) to "focus" sound to each ear, but also some dispersion through the room to create a live ambient effect. How the speakers are positioned can optimize the stereo image. Many audiophiles like to toe in the speakers just a little, and sometimes a slight tilt back to align the ears. When the speakers are moved closer together, we have less reflection off side walls. These reflections can smear timing cues critical to the stereo image. Sound quality can be degraded as well... so we want to avoid much as possible, the early reflections off the side walls, and a hard floor. The disadvantage of moving closer together (too close) we have more interaural crosstalk, that is both ears hear each speaker more equally, (and we lose some of the timing cues) so the stereo image isn't as strong.
     
  3. action pact

    action pact Music Omnivore

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  4. Hudo

    Hudo Forum Resident

    Location:
    Dublin, Ireland
    It affects mid bass coupling. To improve mid bass (important for vocals!) put them closer together. If they are too wide it will draw attention where you don't want it, but sound stage will appear bigger, with thinner mid bass (vocals, piano, ...). The truth is always somewhere in the middle:)
     
  5. Ezd

    Ezd Forum Resident

    That is a good observation... Now that you mention it, it surprised me also. Obviously, the size of the room is a limiting factor.
     
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  6. McLover

    McLover Senior Member

    I use 6-10 feet apart for best wide Stereo, as originally intended.
     
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  7. G B Kuipers

    G B Kuipers Forum Resident

    Location:
    Netherlands
    I am always playing with positioning and I have found this to be very true. Too far apart and vocals get thinned out.
     
  8. Doug Walton

    Doug Walton Forum Resident

    Location:
    United States
    This is interesting. I have my floorstanders right at 10.5 feet apart, measure at centers. My chair is at about 11 feet from each one. As per PSB's suggestion, I have them toed-in about 7 degrees from being straight ahead, and I also have them slightly tilted up so the tweeters are aimed at my ears at the chair. And the sound and staging are good. BUT - I have been feeling like there is a bit of body lacking in the entire presentation - like I want to richen it up just a bit. Not more bass per se - more body. Perhaps I have my speakers too far apart, and as a result, I'm losing out on some of the mid-bass mentioned above?
     
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  9. George P

    George P Notable Member

    Location:
    NYC
    Can I ask how far apart your speakers are, and how far you are from each speaker?

    Because of my living space, I have my speakers about 5 feet apart and 9 feet from the listening position. And toed in to meet on the wall directly behind the listening position.
     
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  10. audiomixer

    audiomixer As Bald As The Beatles

    That's about where mine are.
     
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  11. Hudo

    Hudo Forum Resident

    Location:
    Dublin, Ireland
    Around 2m apart, ~1.5m from front wall, ~1-1.5 from side walls, and i sit ~3m from speakers, some room photos: Hifi setup v2
    But I still play with position from time to time. I like bigger sound stage but it screws up the vocals.
    Pics are 1y old, i recently bought 2x REL t5i subs, and replaced amp, DAC, turntable, phono preamp, cables ... well everything except speakers:)
     
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  12. KT88

    KT88 Senior Member

    An equilateral triangle arrangement with the main listening position is a good objective. It can't always work in every space. So distance apart depends upon the listening distance and the room.
    -Bill
     
  13. Tetrack

    Tetrack Forum Resident

    Location:
    Scotland, UK.
    Basic rule of thumb, position the speakers the same distance apart as you are from them in the listening position where possible. Adjust from there.
     
  14. sound chaser

    sound chaser Senior Member

    Location:
    North East UK.
    I pretty much use the equilateral method at about 10-12 feet. I make sure that from the main listening position I can just see the top and outer sides of the speaker cabinets.

    It took me about 25 years to come to this decision which I find I’ve been happiest with.
     
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  15. csgreene

    csgreene Forum Resident

    Location:
    Idaho, USA
    I too prefer the equilateral triangle approach as a starting point and adjusting from there. My experience in my house has been to err on the side of slightly closer together than farther apart.
     
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  16. Hudo

    Hudo Forum Resident

    Location:
    Dublin, Ireland
    Not really, they should be apart around 80% of listening position distance for a standard room (ref: Get Better Sound by Jim Smith). But thats just rule of thumb and starting position of position adjustment
     
  17. csgreene

    csgreene Forum Resident

    Location:
    Idaho, USA
    And that's really the thing, isn't it? All of these *rules* are simply a starting point. If you have the option, you need to adjust width, distance from side/back walls, angle, etc. It's absolutely amazing how these tweaks affect sound and the soundstage.
     
  18. Chris Schoen

    Chris Schoen Rock 'n Roll !!!

    Location:
    Maryland, U.S.A.
    10 feet minimum.
     
  19. Robert C

    Robert C Forum Resident

    Location:
    London, UK
  20. manxman

    manxman Forum Resident

    Location:
    Isle of Man
    My front speakers are 12 feet apart, in an equilateral triangle with me, and toed in by 30º so that they directly face me.

    My rear speakers are more than 35 feet apart and heavily toed-in so that they directly face my ears – given the placement of windows and radiators, it was either that or only about three feet apart, and with rear speakers it's better to have greater, rather than lesser, spacing than front speakers.
     
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  21. Mine are 7.5 feet from center of each speaker. I’ve played with toe in position till I found a sweet spot. My chair is 8.5 feet back

    Obviously depends on each room.
     
  22. JackG

    JackG Forum Resident

    Location:
    NJ
    Mine are 8' apart, tweeter to tweeter, and I'm a bit under 7' from each with them toed directly at me. Pretty wide but it's where they have to go given room constraints. Still very good center fill and a nice big stage.
     
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  23. Black Elk

    Black Elk Music Lover

    Location:
    Bay Area, U.S.A.
    The people making the recordings tend to use an equilateral triangle, so playback should follow that.

    The distance is dependent on speaker type and size (and where the acoustic center occurs). Most larger floor-standers need to be 3m/10' apart. You can sit closer to something like a dual-concentric because you do not need the distance for the sound from the individually spaced drivers to integrate at the listening position.

    As always, consult what the manufacturer says to find a suitable starting point.
     
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  24. jdsher

    jdsher Forum Resident

    Location:
    Plano, Texas, USA
    This thread is timely as I've really struggled with this issue. When I first purchased my Proacs the dealer set them up perfectly for my listening position. Unfortunately, my maids moved then against the walls for some reason. I should've marked this position with tape like they do at my local dealer's shop. I've tried lots of positions, but can't seem to get back to where they have that perfect mix of imaging and bass punch. Thankfully, my dealer has offered to help me when he delivers my new streamer that I've ordered. He charges $90/hr which will be well worth it to have them set this up again. "DON'T FORGET TO MARK THIS SPOT!" I keep telling myself.
    I think the Cardas calculator seems a little weird as it says I should put my speakers 5+ feet from the side walls which is about where they are now, but it says to place them 8+ feet from the rear walls in a room that's only 21" long. Doesn't that seem a little strange?
    Jon
     
  25. Carl Swanson

    Carl Swanson Senior Member

    Isn't it the basic rule that two speakers and the listening position form an equilateral triangle?
     
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