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How much jazz was there in these classic rock artists?

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by Andrew J, Apr 30, 2021.

  1. PC31

    PC31 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Ottawa, CAN
    Last edited: May 1, 2021
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  2. Erik Tracy

    Erik Tracy Meet me at the Green Dragon for an ale

    Location:
    San Diego, CA, USA
    Bill Ward of Sabbath was basically a swing drummer. Tony Iommi adored Django Reinhardt, Neil Peart studied with Gene Krupa.
    Good link.

    I was going to mention that 'swing' thing, but also Tony's admiration of Django Reinhardt. Neil Peart was a huge fan of Gene Krupa, too.
     
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  3. Psychedelic Good Trip

    Psychedelic Good Trip Senior Member

    Location:
    New York
    Chicago?

    [​IMG]
    The band Chicago in 1975.
     
  4. PC31

    PC31 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Ottawa, CAN
    Sorry - Go to 34:00
     
  5. RudolphS

    RudolphS Forum Resident

    Location:
    Rio de Janeiro
    What about Chicago and Blood, Sweat & Tears? They were more inspired by big band swing than Bop, but the jazz influences on their early albums are way more clearer and direct than many other artists named in this thread.
     
    Last edited: May 1, 2021
  6. Andrew J

    Andrew J Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    South East England
    Yes, wasnt Ed Cassidy a jazz drummer?
     
  7. TheDailyBuzzherd

    TheDailyBuzzherd Forum Resident

    Location:
    Northeast USA
    Randy Bachman added jazz licks to his bands.
    “Undun”, “Looking Out for #1”, anyone?

    The Doors, clearly. Should’ve reconvened as a
    jazz combo after Jim’s passing. Elements on
    their debut, “LA Woman” and “Ships with Sails”.

    The Byrds and Crosby: “Eight Miles High”
    was inspired by Coltrane and Shankar.
    David’s “Dream for Him” and “Yvette in English”
    are good examples.

    The Dead, Joni and Steely Dan, of course!

    Jefferson Airplane dabbled on “... Baxter’s”.
    One example is “Rejoyce”. I hear it!

    Then you have the myriad of horn bands and
    certain blues acts, such The Blues Project,
    all of whom dabbled.

    The Brecker Brothers’ Dreams was almost
    straight jazz. Seek if you’ve not immersed.

    Then there’s the one-offs by The Monkees
    and Beatles, “Magnolia Simms” and “You
    Know My Name”, respectively.

    Many, many more.
     
  8. TheDailyBuzzherd

    TheDailyBuzzherd Forum Resident

    Location:
    Northeast USA

    Yep. His gear setup was unusual, too.

    Is he still with us?
     
  9. TheDailyBuzzherd

    TheDailyBuzzherd Forum Resident

    Location:
    Northeast USA
    Stewart Copeland of The Police. Jazz Synchopator.

    King Crimson: All over the place, especially “Lizard”.
     
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  10. TheDailyBuzzherd

    TheDailyBuzzherd Forum Resident

    Location:
    Northeast USA
    ... and how could I forget? Jeff Beck!!!
     
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  11. GregM

    GregM No static at all

    Location:
    Daddyland, CA
    I'd say all of these artists lacked the chops to be decent jazz musicians and were way too harmonically limited (not to mention rhythmically and melodically). Some of them were influenced by jazz, but didn't take it very seriously except maybe Joni. But most outright hated jazz, e.g., Clapton, who has said the only thing he learned from jazz musicians was how to dress. And he didn't seem to learn that, either.
     
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  12. dance_hall_keeper

    dance_hall_keeper Forum Resident

    Dino Danelli played in Lionel Hampton’s band for a while. I’ve never really zoned in to see how much of this experience and expertise he brought to The (Young) Rascals.

    Next time I listen,…

    Richie Hayward of Little Feat, perhaps.
     
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  13. pbuzby

    pbuzby Senior Member

    Location:
    Chicago, IL, US
    Ed Cassidy "left the concert" (as Ron Carter puts it) in 2012.
     
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  14. pbuzby

    pbuzby Senior Member

    Location:
    Chicago, IL, US
    Blood Sweat & Tears had several great jazz players. Chicago, not so much but there was a jazz influence on the early albums.
     
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  15. TheDailyBuzzherd

    TheDailyBuzzherd Forum Resident

    Location:
    Northeast USA


    Aaah, thanks. Bummer. He was solidly
    of The Depression Era, as were me folks.
     
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  16. Andrew J

    Andrew J Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    South East England
    No, and he was quite a bit older than the others. Wasn't he Randy California's stepfather or something?


    Thought I'd also comment here, as some people have mentioned certain artists- I didn't include artists like Steely Dan, or Zappa in the list, as I thought it would be more fun to lists ones that were less glaringly obvious in their jazz influences.

    I mean what would be the point of listing Soft Machine?
     
    Last edited: May 1, 2021
  17. Terrapin Station

    Terrapin Station Forum Resident

    Location:
    NYC Man
    Yeah, even aside from the fact that influence need not be very conspicuous, a tune like "Lazy" has very conspicuous jazz influences, including that the main riff is somewhere between a straight swing and a bop head, and the body of the tune once the vocals get going is basically a jump swing feel:

     
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  18. Terrapin Station

    Terrapin Station Forum Resident

    Location:
    NYC Man
    Both Jack Bruce and Ginger Baker were as much into jazz as they were rock, weren't they? The jazz influence in their music is pretty significant, even if Cream doesn't sound much like jazz most of the time (as opposed to a lot of later stuff that Bruce and Baker did). Again, something need not sound like what it was influenced by in order for it to be influenced.
     
  19. Roberto899

    Roberto899 Forum Resident

    Location:
    California
    King Crimson, Jeff Beck, I would say even ELP off the top of my head.
     
  20. Hot Ptah

    Hot Ptah Forum Resident

    Location:
    Kansas City, MO
    I agree.
     
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  21. Fischman

    Fischman RockMonster, ClassicalMaster, and JazzMeister

    Location:
    New Mexico
    Yeah, well.... I'm not seeing the distinction, unless your mention of "sounds like" is more about production than underlying musical structure or tactics employed. In either case, though, I'm not hearing all that much of them doing that in Cream, no matter how much they loved it, or did it later. Baker to an extent, Bruce less so.

    And I never said it wasn't there at all.... recall my first post on the topic was just that I wouldn't put it at the same level as Joni or Steely Dan.
     
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  22. Fischman

    Fischman RockMonster, ClassicalMaster, and JazzMeister

    Location:
    New Mexico
    I say this as someone who likes Clapton's playing...
    .... but his live album with Winton Marsalis was an abomination. It sounds like he hated the jazz end of things. Either that or he just has zero capacity for the form. Probably both. A waste of two otherwise talented musicians.
     
    GregM likes this.
  23. Siegmund

    Siegmund Vinyl Sceptic

    Location:
    Britain, Europe
    Both Bruce and Baker played straight jazz gigs and Bruce made a straight jazz album (Things We Like) but there was no jazz in Cream, who were blues rockers with occasional psychedelic flourishes.

    As for the Dead, I don’t hear any jazz in their improvisation/jamming. Nor do I hear any in Blues For Allah.
     
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  24. HfxBob

    HfxBob Forum Resident

    Correct, and the score of zero for Deep Purple in the OP is simply wrong. The last iteration of the band before their initial breakup featured the great Tommy Bolin, one of the jazziest of all rock guitarists.
     
  25. Jon-A

    Jon-A Forum Resident

    Location:
    Madison, WI
    I'm surprised at some of the stuff people don't see the Jazz in. I mean, just 'cause it doesn't go ting-ting-a-ling on the ride cymbal and have a walking bassline over I Got Rhythm chord changes...? (And 'fusion' is Jazz (a fusion of jazz+rock), so if it sounds like fusion, it's influenced by Jazz.)

    Case in point: Cream playing Spoonful live for 20 minutes, all three of them wandering freely away from the song structure, is all about Jazz methodology - which at least Baker and Bruce were well aware of. Rock dynamics and instrumentation, sure - but Muddy Waters and Robert Johnson didn't do that sorta thing. Or Elvis.

    Jazz is a much more varied field than people seem to realize - with a bigger sphere of influence.
     
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