How much musical merit in hair metal?

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by mtvgeneration, Apr 7, 2021.

  1. deeluxdx7

    deeluxdx7 Forum Resident

    Wow!

    You nailed it man.....this is pretty much how I feel about their "evolution" and "Re-invention"

    I'm not old enough to have lived through the original KISS phenomenon, or to have even been around when they crashed, burned and started limping through the 80's

    I joined the party around 1990.

    I was always fascinated by this.....THING.....that had happened in the 70's. It was such an anomaly. At the time of their birth, North America had no use for Glam or Punk Rock....Alice Cooper, The Rolling Stones, Blondie......there were a few cool-looking acts that played simple and energetic music in the mainstream.....but from what I've read North America was far more into music that....I wouldn't even consider it "ROCK", let alone "ROCK n' ROLL"......very middle of the road....and in my opinion dull music, played by people who seemingly had ZERO interest in either looking cool, or entertaining their fans. (I get that music is subjective, and some may LOVE the stuff I'm talking about. I'm not saying it sucks, I'm just saying I DON'T GET IT!, just my opinion, no disrespect meant to any act that I'm sure was very good at doing what they did..and I am aware many people "Don't get" KISS.)

    There didn't seem to be any modern comparable to what they had been all those years ago. But not having been there, yet knowing how popular it had been at one point. It was utterly baffling/fascinating how what they had been turned into what they were at the point I boarded the KISS train.

    Because the way I remember it.....they were kind of an "embarrassment" in the music biz at that point. Gene's look in the "Tears are falling" video, or his L.A Gear Runners and Spandex pants during "Crazy Nights.....Paul's bizarre overly-informative, sex story, stage raps. (Hey, I've got a sense of humour... but Paul was SO obviously "trying too hard" that it was awkward to listen to.)

    The fact that they would constantly play songs WAY TOO FAST in concert.......It sounded terrible, I remember hearing them play "Creatures" at a Black Flag pace.....and when you are intimately in tune with the groove of a song because you have been listening to it for years.....it is....UNCOMFORTABLE to hear that song played out of "the pocket"....it can almost make you feel motion sick....maybe that's just me. But when aspects of a bands performance are literally producing nausea in you, something has gone terribly wrong....and this is an act performing with the giant KISS sign behind them....A sign, a brand, whatever you want to call it....that to you MEANS something....it STANDS for something...but the guys performing with that sign behind them don't seem to know or care how much the butcher what they created....it can be a bit upsetting....especially for a 12 year old.

    In retrospect people seem to have a lot of warm memories of 80's KISS.....but I maintain that there was much more to dislike about that band than to appreciate.

    The #1A and #1B things being a total disregard for quality control.....one good song per record was enough for them.

    And a co/leader who's insecurity and subsequent attempts to insulate his ego at any possible deflation, was actually the prime factor in the band's self-destructive behavior...And I maintain KISS was self-destructive. No, they didn't do drugs. But there's more than one way shipwreck your band. Paul cannot come to grips with the fact that he does NOT know EVERYTHING, that he is NOT qualified to be the ultimate authority in many aspects of putting together the product we know as KISS.

    One of the most telling things I've seen is on the inside of Asylum, amidst the usual liner notes it says this:

    "KISS is un-manageable, but can be reached through Winterland productions ect ect"

    (I think that may have been the company who held the licence to produce their merchandise....what the hell?!?!? That's not how you run a band....but, KISS merch ALWAYS sold...so these people could afford to tell Paul whatever he wanted to hear and keep collecting on what was probably their best revenue stream. All the while, not caring enough to sit P&G down and say...."You know you guys are making fools of yourselves?, Right?"
     
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  2. BA Baracus

    BA Baracus Forum Resident

    Location:
    illinois
    After their 70s commercialism in merch-toys alone.. how were they not rich? 35 was old to me (my parents age) when I was 14. In comparison to the bands I mentioned.
     
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2021
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  3. Matthew Tate

    Matthew Tate Forum Resident

    Location:
    Richmond, Virginia

    I heard stories they were pretty much struggling until the early 90's
     
  4. deeluxdx7

    deeluxdx7 Forum Resident

    I actually think that Gene and Paul (Unlike Peter and Ace.) had made smart financial moves for themselves personally, and divorced their own monetary situations from the ultimate fate of KISS.

    It's true that during the retro-active energy tax fiasco, KISS faced financial Armageddon (I still don't understand how the government can get away with charging a RETROACTIVE tax?!?!? There is NO WAY that can be constitutionally copacetic .)

    But had the potential "Titanic we know as KISS hit the proverbial iceberg......I think Gene and Paul would have been just fine.
     
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  5. Deuce66

    Deuce66 Senior Member

    You have to separate the individuals from the KISS Company. I never heard of Gene and Paul having personal financial difficulties, the band on the other hand ran into problems.
     
  6. deeluxdx7

    deeluxdx7 Forum Resident

    This.

    You can say a lot about things about G&P.

    But being dummies isn't one of them.

    I guarantee that as Peter and Ace were taking HUGE advances for gambling, Hookers and drugs.

    Paul and Gene were matching them dollar for dollar, but putting that money in places where it started working for them.

    My guess is that Paul and Gene never had to work another day in their lives...probably around the time of "Love Gun"

    And though the KISS Corp. almost hit the rocks in the late 80's, Paul and Gene's personal wealth was never at risk.

    ....wait....wasn't Paul on "Lifestyles of the rich and famous"? right around KISS's worst financial period?

    ....Or am I getting KISS "Exposed" confused with reality?
     
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  7. tinnox

    tinnox Senior Member

    Location:
    Maryland
  8. Matthew Tate

    Matthew Tate Forum Resident

    Location:
    Richmond, Virginia
    thank you for the info
     
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  9. R79

    R79 Forum Resident

    Location:
    39629
    Not to get political, but anyone notice how some songs by these bands started getting more "socially conscious" by the late 80s/early 90s (ie, Dont Close Your Eyes by Kix, Something to Believe In by Poison, Uncle Tom's Cabin by Warrant)? I wonder if that would have continued had these bands remained popular.
     
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  10. Matthew Tate

    Matthew Tate Forum Resident

    Location:
    Richmond, Virginia
    faster pussycat also got more serious. I’d say yea because a lot of these bands did stay more serious . Especially warrant the rest of the 90s.
     
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  11. tinnox

    tinnox Senior Member

    Location:
    Maryland
  12. Deuce66

    Deuce66 Senior Member

    All of them were changing with the times brought on by the Seattle scene, bye bye party lyrics hello seriousness. A perfect example is KISS Revenge vs Carnival of Souls, they were always slow to react to trends but this case was very obvious.
     
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  13. Matthew Tate

    Matthew Tate Forum Resident

    Location:
    Richmond, Virginia

    i mean also most of warrants stuff was written when jani land was in his early 20's. did we think at almost 30 he'd write the same stuff as he did at 20?
     
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  14. Nick Prango

    Nick Prango Forum Resident

    Location:
    Macedonia
    Honestly I can't believe the world gave up glam metal/hard rock/melodic rock for that farce known as grunge.
     
  15. Greenalishi

    Greenalishi Forum Resident

    Location:
    San Francisco
    I feel the same way. But, I can’t believe the world gave real music in 1954 for that farce called rock n roll.
     
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  16. MYQ1

    MYQ1 Forum Resident

    Location:
    At The Stereo
    Tonight's 75 min Great White playlist:
    1. Move It (5:35)
    2. Fast Road (3:40)
    3. Lady Red Light (4:54)
    4. Hiway Nights (5:59)
    5. Get On Home (5:28)
    6. Hand On The Trigger (5:20)
    7. Shot In The Dark (4:53)
    8. Old Rose Motel (Live) (6:41)
    9. House Of Broken Love (Live) (6:02)
    10. Face The Day (Live) (5:43)
    11. Rock Me (7:19)
    12. Desert Moon (4:32)
    13. Call It Rock & Roll (3:56)
    14. Once Bitten Twice Shy (5:22)
    Sounds cool, bluesy & awesome!!

     
  17. MYQ1

    MYQ1 Forum Resident

    Location:
    At The Stereo
    Earlier today I listened to the Best Of Britny Fox & then the same by Cinderella.
    Keifer & Co had twenty times the talent of their offshoot group.
    "Long Way To Love" is a cool tune though.
     
    Last edited: Oct 9, 2021
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  18. Matthew Tate

    Matthew Tate Forum Resident

    Location:
    Richmond, Virginia

    great white was so dang good
     
  19. Matthew Tate

    Matthew Tate Forum Resident

    Location:
    Richmond, Virginia
    the singer dizzy dean davidsons band after britny fox was also a million times better than britny fox

     
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  20. MYQ1

    MYQ1 Forum Resident

    Location:
    At The Stereo
    In the studio & live.
    They could deliver:

     
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  21. MYQ1

    MYQ1 Forum Resident

    Location:
    At The Stereo
    Yeah I have that.
    I don't have any of the Britny Fox albums after he left but from I understand they strangely got better too. :D
    I will give them credit for making me aware of Nazareth though. :righton:
     
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  22. Matthew Tate

    Matthew Tate Forum Resident

    Location:
    Richmond, Virginia

    do you like that better than britny fox? do you have the 2nd blackeyed susan album?

    i have all of the BF albums and they lost a little something when dean left.

    i even have his trippy singer/songwriter albums

     
  23. MYQ1

    MYQ1 Forum Resident

    Location:
    At The Stereo
    Not floored by it but it's OK.
    He was going for the Stones thing shortly after the Crowes & Quireboys did.
    I believe I read back then that Jeff Cease was involved somehow.
    You told me about that label that put out that 2nd album.
    Have not heard it but thanks for that.
    Might pick up their version of Hooked for Live In NYC.
    That has always been a tricky one to get.
     
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  24. vamborules

    vamborules Forum Resident

    Location:
    CT
    Red Alert (early version of Steelheart) - No Mercy 1983



    These guys were rock gods to me when I was a teenager. I was convinced they were the next Van Halen.

    I can't remember for sure whether I was at this show. If I wasn't it was only because I couldn't get a ride or something, because I went to see them whenever I could...which wasn't that often since they played in bars and I was underage. So a thing like this I would have probably been there. But I'm not sure if I was.
     
  25. Matthew Tate

    Matthew Tate Forum Resident

    Location:
    Richmond, Virginia

    yup that packaged the first album and the unreleased second album together.

    their shark island release is great too if you like that band. rounds up a bunch of rarities
     
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