How popular were the Velvet Underground at the time?

The drums on Running to Stand Still are also reminiscent of Ocean/Here Come the Waves.

 

I never meant to imply that everyone who ever talked about the Velvet Underground back then was ONLY doing so to sound cool, although I realize my first comment on the subject may have come across that way.

But that is undoubtedly a phenomenon that occurs, and my sense is that this is more likely to happen with certain bands than others. VU seems to me to be the epitome of this kind of band--one that for a long time was known more by music writers and musicians than the public at large--and in those cases you often get people (including other writers and musicians), wanting to sound like the writers and musicians they like, mimicking their opinions and tastes.

There's no way to know for sure how much people talk about a band because they genuinely like them and how much they do it to seem cool. But neither one is zero, and a few data points doesn't prove anything one way or the other. I don't have any desire to argue about this, it was just meant as a casual remark about how they were a "hip" name to namedrop, perhaps stated a bit too broadly.

 

The reason the VU were and are a hip name to drop is because they were and are cool, not because lemming music fans want to sound like their favorite critic.

 

Hey, I agree that they were and are cool! They're one of my favorite bands. But like a lot of great non-mainstream bands, there is a certain perceived cachet in talking about them--which doesn't exist with more popular artists who everyone knows. None of this detracts from the greatness of the music or their importance as a band.

 

But I have never known anyone who TALKED about the Velvet Underground who didn't also listen to them, and frankly, I have over the decades known a lotta people who talk a lotta ****. (Another way of putting this: I was a music journalist for about thirty years.) If you think this is a thing that actually happens, give us some examples.

 

Don't think they where ever populat ; influential but not popular!

 

As I said it's an impossible thing to "prove" one way or another, so I don't have really any examples that would convince anyone. But I've certainly known people in real life who would name drop artists/bands/whatever and then upon further conversation, it became clear that they didn't actually know what they were talking about. Of course I've never heard anyone do this with REO Speedwagon or John Legend--it's always the semi-obscure hipster bands that people talk about.

Maybe I'm just a cynic but I believe there are often ulterior motives behind things people say--everyday people in conversation, famous people in interviews, writers, everyone--beyond simply stating true preferences. People are often trying to fit in, competing for status, or selling themselves in some way. And this is true whether the topic is music, politics, or anything else.

 

A couple of weeks ago I put together a short Twitter thread investigating how popular they were at the time. They certainly had a fair amount of press and 50K copies of the first album over 18 months is pretty good going, especially in light of them having to withdraw the torso cover. They certainly would have entered the top100 if that had not happened.

https://twitter.com/GrantMcPheeFilm/status/1421397735446614020

 

I guess you are more awed by people who speak about the VU than I am.

I dunno man. As one who had the first Velvet Underground & Nico album upon release and knows every note (and would place it on a personal "desert island" short list), I just do not invest the same sense of awe, special "cachet," or status that comes with liking/enjoying/knowing VU that you seem too.

They are in the pantheon of greats (in my personal Valhalla) but they are not the only ones. VU always had a niche sound and aimed for a niche audience. Those who are going to dig it are going to dig it (assuming they listen) and those who don't won't.

The cool-status thing you have built up in your mind seems out of proportion to me.

Bill

 

Same here.

 

Reading your thread now--this is a great resource for exactly the question I was asking. Very well done!

You mention the number of Discogs entries for VU&N, and that's exactly what got me thinking about this a few weeks ago--if they were so unpopular, why were so many copies of their first album pressed? Anyway, good stuff.

 

I appreciate your perspective, but I was careful to refer to the *perceived* cachet of name-dropping VU--I am not personally awed by it, but rather feel there are people who *think* they are impressing others. It's impossible to say how much this happens, but it certainly happens.

There may be a generational difference too. Since you were around back then, you may still think of them as a "niche" band who were ignored or looked on as weirdos by wider society. But to people my age (born in the '80s) and younger, they were presented as this iconic band that indie/artsy/hipster kids are supposed to be into. It got to the point where VU t-shirts were sold at Urban Outfitters--does it really seem possible that all these mall-going teenagers were big fans? I saw a similar thing happen in the early 2000s after Fight Club popularized "Where is My Mind?" and all of a sudden people my age would talk about the Pixies as their favorite band--but they'd really only heard that one song.

The prevalence of social media--where adopting an identity is an easy way to get attention and "likes"--has I think accelerated this phenomenon.

 

You misconstrue. I think that the VU has become very well known among people who care. So what?

They are an iconic band (but one among many). I don't believe people are claimed to like them because they are seeking to impress others. No more than with any other iconic band.

Bill

 

They were even a ****tier band than the Mothers.

 

I found WLWH in the dollar bins in 1969. That was my first exposure. Nobody I knew were into them. They got very little airplay.

 

With a track like New York Telephone Conversation, I can easily believe a 4 year old liking it.

In 1973 David Bowie's Laughing Gnome was rereleased. I was 5 at the time and loved it (about the only Bowie song I do like still, apart from the instrumentals on Low and Heroes). My father was 20 years older than me. It's through him I heard the Bowie rerelease, as well as how I got into music. He did have Transformer but only really played Walk On The Wild Side as my mother liked it. If he'd have played New York Telephone Conversation I'm sure the 5 year old me would have liked it.

 

The Allman Brothers’ first trip north was an industry showcase Phil Walden had convened at the Boston Tea Party. They opened for the Velvet Underground.

Can you think of two more radically different band oeuvres than the ABB and VU?

It did not go well, but Don Law of the Tea Party loved the band and booked them for a couple weeks later. Rather than drive back to Macon, they squatted in an abandoned building. They also played the Cambridge Green free at least once.

 

in the new apple docu, lou says he made $2.35 royalties for his pre velvet song leave her for me, more than he made with the velvets. they might have been known in certain circles, but i don't think they sold well

 

When I first discovered them in the late 80’s you were given the impression they were completely unheard of at the time. But since then I’ve seen plenty of contemporaneous UK press where they were mentioned. I think the Stooges and to a lesser extent Nick Drake had the same thing. Sure they weren’t massive but they had more presence than the myth would have you believe. It wasn’t like they were releasing private press runs of 25 copies. I guess these things become a bit of a convenient narrative over time.

 

I was going to make a snide remark, but despite the poor audio quality, that’s actually pretty dang good!

Poor Keith Relf. RIP. He may not have been the best vocalist, but there is something compelling about his performances, at least on video.

It’s cool seeing Pagey play bass. As I recall, Jimmy Page has been a pretty outspoken fan of the Velvet Underground forever and says he saw them perform. When and where, I have no idea.

 

Good eye on the video and song sync! I still find Relf’s performances as compelling.

 

The Yardbirds shared a bill with the Velvets at the Michigan State Fair in 1966.

 

I think it was 72 when I first heard them

 

No kidding! I did not know that. That is awesome!