Huge new 35 CD John Mayall box set, "The First Generation 1965-1974"

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by Galactus, Oct 30, 2020.

  1. John Kelman

    John Kelman Writer/Photographer, AAJ Senior Contributor

    Location:
    Ottawa, Canada
    From the info provided before I received the box, and the box itself, the bonus live tracks on cd5 are the same band as the studio album.
     
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  2. John Kelman

    John Kelman Writer/Photographer, AAJ Senior Contributor

    Location:
    Ottawa, Canada

    Thank you, kind sirs!!
     
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  3. revolution_vanderbilt

    revolution_vanderbilt Forum Resident

    Location:
    New York
    I do believe some of that info is inaccurate. Pre-release info credits the saxes on Diary of A Band to Chris Mercer and Rip Kant, rather than Mercer and Dick Heckstall-Smith.
     
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  4. John Kelman

    John Kelman Writer/Photographer, AAJ Senior Contributor

    Location:
    Ottawa, Canada
    I'll double check it this afternoon. Whether it needs correcting or not, thanks for this, as I always want to get it right!
     
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  5. John Kelman

    John Kelman Writer/Photographer, AAJ Senior Contributor

    Location:
    Ottawa, Canada
    John Mayall's liner notes to the two Diary of a Band Volumes list the personnel as:

    Mick Tayor: guitar
    Keith Tillman: bass
    Keef Hartley: drums
    Chris Mercer: tenor & baritone saxophones
    Dick Heckstall-Smith: tenor & soprano saxophones

    I did, however, not credit Tillman for the second volume, so that's been corrected...with many thanks for encouraging me to recheck this. But here's a scan of the liners Mayall wrote for both Volumes of Diary of a Band:

    [​IMG]
     
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  6. revolution_vanderbilt

    revolution_vanderbilt Forum Resident

    Location:
    New York
    That's right. It's the information posted on Superdeluxeedition, and now discogs, that erroneously credits Rip Kant.
     
  7. John Kelman

    John Kelman Writer/Photographer, AAJ Senior Contributor

    Location:
    Ottawa, Canada
    The confusion with the five bonus tracks that also appear on the 1987 compilation Primal Solos, is that the First Generation box set suggests they were from November 30, 1965, at London's Flamingo Club. Not sure how it happened, but I credited those tracks to April 30, 1966, in error. So I have corrected the track listing to reflect that change. My bad. Mea culpa!

    The confusion however, is that sources I can find have Jack Bruce listed as playing with Mayall from November 11 to November 30, 1965. However...the same source lists John McVie as playing bass with the band from November 30, 1965 through to a couple years later. So, the question is: who played the Flamingo date on November 30, 1965, Jack Bruce or John McVie?

    To complicate matters further....

    The exact same five tracks, on the Primal Solos comp, are actually credited to an April 1965 show (no exact date) at the same venue, the Flamingo. They are, indeed, credited to Mayall, Clapton, Bruce & Flint, when as far as I can tell, Bruce didn't start playing with Mayall until November 11, 1965, meaning IF it were actually recorded in April 1965, it would have to have been John McVie.

    In other words: confusion reigns!

    I will email Madfish and see if I can get clarity on this, and will report back when I do. Sorry, but I can't make the change in good conscience until I can get proper confirmation because, as you can see above, it is all far from clear. But if Bruce did play on them, I will make the correction. I'll ask for your patience, as I don't know how quickly I'll get a reply.

    However it pans out, thanks for raising it. I'll get it right as soon as I hear back.
    Cheers!
    John
     
    Last edited: Mar 18, 2021
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  8. John Kelman

    John Kelman Writer/Photographer, AAJ Senior Contributor

    Location:
    Ottawa, Canada
    Indeed. Wonderful how misinformation gets perpetuated on the web so easily...what I can say is that I took a full day to put the track and personnel listing together, using the box set and a track/personnel listing given to me by the publicist. Not that I don't make mistakes (see above post!), but in this case, yes, I was correct. Kant only plays on Crusade and the 37th National Jazz & Blues Festival show that's included as one of the previously unreleased live sets (CD31, for anyone interested).

    But man, doing that track and personnel listing really made my head spin! Now, with the legit questions raised by folks here, I'm getting even dizzier! But I'll figure things out and report back on the Jack Bruce question, once I've heard back from the label (specifically the guy who produced the box).
     
  9. Louis Bova

    Louis Bova Forum Resident

    Location:
    New York - USA
    As of March 19th, I still haven't heard back from Madfish concerning the error.
    I must admit that I'm a bit disappointed. Since they did such a fine job on the box from top to bottom one would think that they would want to fix the one flaw ...oh well.
     
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  10. John Kelman

    John Kelman Writer/Photographer, AAJ Senior Contributor

    Location:
    Ottawa, Canada
    Hello folks,
    I received a reply from the label's Mayall expert today, and as suspected, it is, indeed, Jack Bruce who plays on the bonus live tracks from the Flamingo, appended to the stereo disc of Blues Breakers with Eric Clapton. Here's what he wrote:

    So, with the story now clear, I have already updated the album record, so that the detailed track and personnel listings reflect the replacement of McVie for Bruce on those five tracks. You can find that here.

    Because it'll take a little time for me to update the article to also include the change, I plan to make the change(s) tomorrow afternoon sometime, so by the end of tomorrow you can expect to see things corrected.

    Again, thanks for raising this issue, as any of you who know me know, by now, that accuracy is paramount to me. So it's much appreciated, as is your patience while I waited for a reply to my query with Madfish.

    Cheers!
    John
     
  11. Mickey2

    Mickey2 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Bronx, NY, USA
    Basically, a box set cashing in on a bunch of albums that cashed in on past performances by noteworthy guitarists: Eric Clapton, Peter Green and Mick Taylor.

    John Mayall is the British Blues equivalent of Denis Hof, former owner of the Moonlite Bunny Ranch, famous for his stable of talent. :laugh:
     
  12. RiRiIII

    RiRiIII Forum Resident

    Location:
    Athens, Greece
    Many thanks!

    So are these November 1965 tracks, the first existant recordings of Clapton after his return from his Greek journey where he played the Athens night clubs (Aug - Oct '65)? If he played like that in these dancing clubs in Athens, I can really see the owner asking him to stop and be smoother (as various testaments confirm...).

    EC left Greece after October 25th '65 but not earlier because, on the 24th Clapton played with the local band Juniors - a photo exists and local press confirm the date (source: "Strange Brew" book, 2007). He was back in London on the 29th. So the BBC Saturday Club, 1965/10/25 tracks CD27 (CD27#5-9) should not feature Clapton at all but only Krivit on guitar.
     
    Last edited: Mar 24, 2021
  13. NumberEight

    NumberEight Came too late and stayed too long

    That’s great. You’ve managed in a short time to get a definitive explanation for something I’ve wondered about for many years.

    You’re good at this stuff, aren’t you? :)
     
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  14. John Kelman

    John Kelman Writer/Photographer, AAJ Senior Contributor

    Location:
    Ottawa, Canada
    I checked, and again, my bad (); doing these extended reviews of large box sets, especially when personnel are changing constantly, is enough to give me a headache (but I still love doing them!).

    How this happened? I was sent a word doc with detailed track & personel listings for the box from the label, long before I had the box itself. I used that as the primary source for my listing, including citing that Geoff Krivit's participation on the disputed tracks was "probably." I was sure that I cross-checked, as I did, the listing against the booklets and cd digipaks when I finally got the box, but must have brain cramped, as the first BBC disc clearly states Krivit as the guitarist (and no longer "probably").

    So, I've corrected the personel listing to reflect your kind correction, and thank you for letting me know. Again, I always appreciate such notifications, though I'm happy to find that in an article that took over a week to write and is a little over 10,000 words, there were only three relatively small mistakes (one I caught, the other two from experts here who are clearly more knwldegable than I!). For such a long piece and such relatively minor errors, I feel pretty good. If I had a fact-checking editor that would help before publication, but you guys are definitely the next best thing!

    i still have to correct the actual article, which I'll be doing later today, but at least the track/personnel section is now correct, again with thanks. Since I'll be going into the article, I'll make sure any mentions of Krivit are also correct there, along with the "Clapton conundrum )..

    Thanks again,
    Cheers!
    John
     
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  15. John Kelman

    John Kelman Writer/Photographer, AAJ Senior Contributor

    Location:
    Ottawa, Canada
    Thanks, but truly, I am just fortunate enough to have built up a massive network of contacts with labels, publicists and other industry folk over the years. So I just know where to go and who to ask when it comes to most questions you guys bring up. I'm frankly in awe at the depth of knowledge here...yes, my expertise is pretty broad and I tend to publish articles that are pretty close to 100% accurate, but am always shocked and stunned to find people here. It's also a good lesson to be humble; as much as you think you might know on any subjects, there's always someone(s) out there who knows more and puts you to shame,

    I think that's a good thing. Not that I ever think I'm the be-all/end-all...but still, it's always worthwhile to be reminded of that fact:
     
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  16. John Kelman

    John Kelman Writer/Photographer, AAJ Senior Contributor

    Location:
    Ottawa, Canada
    With all due respect, don't forget Harvey Mandel, Jon Mark, Jerry McGee and Freddy Robinson...fine guitarists all.

    Also, of the British guitarists who passed through Mayall's revolving door, the only one who had already built a reputation and public profile was Clapton. AFIK, neither Green nor Taylor (18 when he joined with Mayall) resembled anything like major known entities when they first played with Mayall. So I'd hardly say he cashed in on these guys.

    Quite the opposite: he gave them fertile territory, where they could hone their skills, in preparation for the next, more visible stages in their careers.
     
  17. fast'n'bulbous

    fast'n'bulbous tight also

    Location:
    New York, NY
    I agree with NumberEight 100%. I have long kept an excel spreadsheet of every released Mayall track through the Mick Taylor era, and which album(s) each appeared on, including compilations. I have always wondered why Stormy Monday had a different date from the others when they were pretty clearly all from the same show, and why the Spring 1966 dates just didn't seem right. Even as recently as the Beano Deluxe Edition these errors persisted, and you have cleared them up. Thanks so much.
     
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  18. Mickey2

    Mickey2 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Bronx, NY, USA
    Have you noted the number of live and "past performance" albums in the collection that certainly capitalize on players who may not have been big cheese when initially joining him, but certainly earned notoriety after joining The Rolling Stones, for example. In fact, didn't Mayall himself recommend Taylor to Jagger? That in itself might have been way of drawing attention to his band and past catalog. Call me a cynic. ;)
     
  19. John Kelman

    John Kelman Writer/Photographer, AAJ Senior Contributor

    Location:
    Ottawa, Canada
    My pleasure!

    I don't know if Mayall recommended Taylor to Jagger, to be honest. I get the cynicism, but from my experiences writing about music and talking with labels and artists, I've tended to lean towards the opposite ;). But I am by no means the final word, so to each their own!
     
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  20. John Kelman

    John Kelman Writer/Photographer, AAJ Senior Contributor

    Location:
    Ottawa, Canada
    Okdoke. I've made the changes to the article. Here's the text that replaces what came before:

    Again, thanks for bringing these issues to my attention. Hopefully the article and album record now accurately represent what actually took place.
    Cheers!
    John
     
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  21. JulesRules

    JulesRules Weaponized, Deranged Warthog Thug

    Location:
    Germany
    Still trying to wrap my head around all that. I guess this means the credits on the 2006 deluxe edition of the Bluesbreakers album are all wrong! What recording date is given for Call It Stormy Monday?
     
  22. John Kelman

    John Kelman Writer/Photographer, AAJ Senior Contributor

    Location:
    Ottawa, Canada
    My pleasure....I appreciate folks pulling me up on this as I always want my stuff to be as absolutely accurate as possible. This was a rough one to figure out on my own, so was lucky/happy to have access to a Mayall expert involved in the box set release.

    They are, as documented, from November 1965. Are they the first recordings after his return from Greece? That I do not know, sorry!

    That is correct, and how I articulate it. If you look at the []ur;=https://musicians.allaboutjazz.com/the-first-generation-1965-1974-john-mayall]album record[/url], you'll see that CD27 track 5-9 are, indeed, attributed to Krivit. I can't recall if that was a correction I made when I straightened things out a few weeks back, but they now accurately reflect Krivit as the lone guitarist (well, other than Mayall).

    Since the label guy said:
    And the Blues Breakers album only has five live tracks, my assumption is that "Stormy Monday," on Looking Back, comes from the same gig in November 1965.

    Hope this helps. So I think we're good, yes?
     
    Last edited: Apr 5, 2021
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  23. VinylCD

    VinylCD Active Member

    Location:
    Finland
    I informed Burning Shed Records from this error 03.03.2021. Yesterday i got replacement disc. Now it has Suspicions Part 1 instead of Gasoline Blues!
     
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  24. Tommyboy

    Tommyboy Senior Member

    Location:
    New York
    You’re a cynic
     
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  25. dhegron

    dhegron Forum Resident

    Location:
    France
    Hi
    Could you tell me if you bought the box directly from Burning Shed Records or from another seller. I had sent an email to Madfish about this, without reply
     
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