Hum and buzzing sound... the new normal.

Hello, this seems to be such a common issue! I have a Thorens TD 209. Running through a Mofi phono stage to a Yamaha CR 2040. My Thorens seems to be issuing a hum and buzzing sound when the volume is turned up. I have I think isolated it to the RCA jacks on the turntable. When I move the RCA cables around the buzzing hum increases. When playing vinyl however, during quiet parts on the record you cannot hear the hum or buzz?
I bought the turntable about 8 years ago in Bangkok. I am wondering if there could be carbon build up on the jacks? Or ground inside the turntable has degraded? I am thinking I might have to take it to a local guy to have the RCA jacks replaced and to check the internal ground.
I have tried:
Grounding to other sources, the receiver and found that grounding to the pre-amp works best.
I have no hum or buzz when running my DAC. Only when running the turntable.
I had the hum before I bought the pre amp and ran the turntable through the phono jack on the Yamaha. I thought perhaps the jacks on the Yamaha were the issue, but had no hum running my DAC through the Aux jacks and when I got the phono preamp I switched to the aux to run the pre amp and the hum and buzz is back.
I tried new RCA cables from expensive ones to cheap ones. All shielded. And no difference.
I would appreciate any input and suggestions.

 

I think you need to check what type of
Design your interconnects are.
The problem can arise with pseudo
Connection.
Original turntable screened cables used one wire usually stranded wire
And a screen for return

No hum.
Pseudo connection use 2 stranded wires. One is hot ie from centre pin
To centre pin. The other is the return
Ie ground to ground.
The screen is connected at one end only.
This type can cause the buzzing you
Mention.
I know Kimber manufacture a
traditional turntable interconnect.
Any repair shop couldake a pair
Purely to test..

 

Have you tried not connecting the ground wire to anything? Sounds like it could be a ground loop.

 

I have tried different rca cables. Kimber looks good but VERY expensive! I am not willing to spend that much on a set of RCA cables and then have the buzzing/hum continue. Any other ideas for alternative cables that folks have used. I find your feedback very interesting though about the hot cable!

 

Probably just a ground loop issue, RCA cables unsuitable as phono cable or a nearby source of noise.

 

Ok, so I am a bit confused what is the difference between phono cables and RCA cables? I look them up and they are all rca cables, so what distinguishes them from "phono" cables. they all have the same connectors? And can someone recommend a good reasonably priced set of "phono" cables?

 

Phono cables take the small signal into account as well as grounding issues. Phono cables are usually very well shielded and low capacitance.

 

To troubleshoot you could try BlueJean cables.
I had the same situation as you, turned out I had a faulty tonearm cable.
I had some cheap separate interconnects laying around and put those on while using the ground of my phono cable.
Problem solved. Sent my cable into Nordost for warranty repair.

Phono cables / tonearm cables have shielding and are typically to interconnects with a ground wire mad into one cable. There are variation is connectors depending on the table. Mine is rca to rca
Like this: Nordost Leif Blue Heaven Tonearm Cable Review

 

It is not a matter of different, or more expensive cables.

It is a matter of using cables specifically for phono.

 

Ok, thanks, but I cannot spend that amount of money on cables LOL. That's close to four hundred dollars for a set of cables. I am shopping on amazon and see some "phono rca cables" with a ground as part of the cable.

 

Phono cables are RCA cables that have certain properties so that they’re up to the job.
Those tend to be better shielded, under 1.2 meter and low capacitance (in the case of MM cartridges).

For example:
I’ve made phono cables using Mogami 2964 coaxial wire, since it has double shielding, <17pF/feet capacitance and I’ve cut it to 0.9 meters to reduce the chances of picking up noise.

Take a look at this thread I’ve made, if you’re interested in making your own phono cables:
Making an RCA phono cable for dummies

A very good phono cable is expensive unless you make it yourself (mine is about 45 bucks).

A separate ground cable is better IMO.
Gives you some more freedom to route the cables the way you want it.

 

Can you post a pic of your setup? Might help with the feedback (pun intended) you're getting.

 

Yes the ground wire is currently connected from the turntable to the phono stage amp. I have tried connecting to other sources like my power conditioner, and to the Yamaha receiver. All have a buzz and him.

 

That was just a picture example.
Blue Jean cables is what I’m talking about.
Go to their site, cheap

 

My suggestion is to not connect it to anything. Could be a ground loop.

 

Cannot do that if the ground wire is not connected I get a very loud hum that does not go away when playing music and is so loud it could damage my speakers. The ground wire needs to be connected.

 

Ok just seeing if you tried it. Two of us in another thread discovered the hum went away with no ground wire. Same turntable though (us) and it uses a three prong electric.

 

Sometimes with turntable hum problems, you have to get pretty creative.

With you TT connected to your preamp ground, try to run a separate wire, directly from your preamp phono ground and touch it to the ground screw on your ac plate.

 

What is an "ac" plate?

 

As. Has been mentioned Mogami
Are excellent.
I have made several sets using this cable.
No need to buy expensive cables.
Sommer cable also good.
If I lived in USA I would send you a set as I have loads. No charge.
It's worth trying.
Good luck.
Oh, Belden also make suitable cables.

 

Just a shot in the dark here. Check to make sure that none of the cartridge connection wires are close to or touching the metal part of the tonearm. I had a problem similar to yours on a different table and after gently pulling them away, my hum went away. Just a thought.

 

I have a TD203 that was hum-free for 4 years using a Schiit Mani phono pre that some have reported hum with. Then when I moved my system around one time 3 months ago, after doing a detachable interconnect mod I had major hum. I was really bummed and thought I had caused it. I couldn't get rid of the hum so I removed my Kimber PBJ braided interconnects and installed basic Tributaries coaxial interconnects and it removed about 75% of the hum. Needless to say I was still disapointed...what did I do I kept asking myself? Then I decided to reposition the Schiit Mani phono pre further from the tube amp's transformers. Ok I got hum down to about 98%, but wasn't totally pleased but it was doable. Then after vacation my wife wanted some changes so I put the stereo on my old Target Audio welded steel audio rack w/ the tube amp on an amp stand on the floor. Bingo...it's totally silent again. I'm still using coaxial interconnects and want to upgrade the interconnects to and from the phono pre, but I'm a bit gun shy right now and it will happen sometime. The moral of the story is I'd try different interconnects and relocation of y0ur Mofi phono preamp. These cheap phono pre's are not all that well shielded, so fiddle with the placement of your TT and phono pre in relationship to your other equipment. My 2¢.

 

Some things to try:

Make sure you're using a coax with low resistance double braided shielding connected right up to the termination (though it sounds like you've already done this).

Make sure the cables are routed well away from any potential sources of induced hum -- transformers in audio and other electronic equipment, electric cables, light fixtures, even walls that have electrical lines running through them, computers, wifi and cellular equipment, etc.

Make sure the turntable itself, especially the phono cart, isn't proximate to similar things.

It is possible, of course, that the ground connection on the turnbale RCA sockets is poor or problematic, given the change when you move the RCAs around, but not so likely given that you have no problem with signal, but it's also possible that you're moving the cables near to and farther from some source of induced hum.

Also make sure the phono stage isn't sitting on top of or near any possible sources of induced hum like transformers in other audio equipment.

 

I've used pseudo balanced cables for phono in the past without issue. The cable I'm using now from phono pre to line stage is not even fully shielded. Zero hum and noise in both cases. The reason is careful placement of components and cable routing. When you're dealing with components that are sensitive to noise pickup, avoiding noise prone setups is critical.

 

Good points, espeically this, and espeically with this phono stage. I’m assuming @Matthew Turner is using the MoFi StudioPhono. IME this unit is very susceptible to RFI and other noise, and due to the overload margin will let you know about all of that! I’d recommend placing your cables well and isolate this guy as far from other electronics as possible no matter what. If possible try using the StudioPhono with another table if a friend has one or something to isolate that as the issue.

Honestly my money is on an internal issue. It can happen over time with an older deck, dry solder joints and whatnot. Just had to refresh all the signal joints in my 1972 Technics this year. If OP is not comfortable refreshing the joints himself, might be best to use the local tech.