I am amazed by NHT SB-1 speakers. What about SB-3 or SuperOne, even better?

Hometheaterhifi C3 frequency response For the C3:



Don't know what the "listening window" measurement is, but C3 vs Classic Three":



NHT C3 Bookshelf Speaker Review - HomeTheaterHifi.com

 

Yes, the C3's measure extremely well. I'm surprised to hear they disappoint. Mine do benefit from a mild toe-in and have subwoofer assistance. I also have SuperOne 2.1s as surrounds and in the bedroom tv system.

 

In my opinion, bookshelf speakers with limited bass response need to be carefully voiced by ear, to sound natural. If the designer provides a very flat midrange and high frequency response, or even a rise above 10 kHz, there will be an imbalance that will not sound natural without a subwoofer. Add extended low frequency response to offset the extended high frequency response and the sound will become balanced.

Reading the comparisons of C-3 versus Classic 3, that have appeared in a few publications, and looking at their response curves, the Classic 3 shows a balanced voicing that implies very natural sound with no subwoofer. The substantially extended high frequency linearity of the C-3 looks good on paper, but implies to me they should benefit greatly from use with a subwoofer. I suspect this explains why I did not like what I heard, when I heard them alone. With no subwoofer, I might be happier with the Classic 3.

If you have time and inclination, please listen to the C3 and SuperOne 2.1 alone, as main two-channel speakers. Tell me if you agree that alone, this way, the SuperOne 2.1 are more satisfying.

 

I like the SB-1 and SB-3 so much, that I am very happy to announce that the SB-2 arrived today. They are the last pair of NHT speakers I intend to try, so I am very excited about hearing them.

If I can find a good price on a pair of Classic 3, buying and hearing them would be a big plus for trying to understand why I was so disappointed with the C-3. But I've found my favorite NHT models. For me, the SB-1, SB-3, and SuperOne 2.1 totally won this shoot-out, so there is not much reason for me to continue beyond these obvious winners, to my ears -- with my two-channel system -- and in my room.

 

I am back to the SuperOne 2.1 for tonight, then the SB-2 tomorrow. Since these two are about the same size, I wanted to hear the SuperOne 2.1 again for a more direct comparison of similar models.

Obviously low bass is not a big priority for me. For decades I thought is was, thus I've always had large floor-standing speakers in my primary system. But now I realize the most important audio qualities for me are natural tonal balance, liveliness and dynamic contrasts, clarity of subtle textures and details, and impressive imaging.

These qualities are here in spades now with the SuperOne 2.1 in place again. And I dont miss the extra low bass from the SB-3 at all. So I think the SuperOne 2.1 is my favorite bookshelf NHT, even though I have not heard every model they have ever made. Ok, I better wait to announce the winner AFTER I've heard the SB-2, since they are sitting here now, asking to be played.

And I will list my complete system and music selections, too. Boy, this has been fun. I wish I could just keep going, and compare every NHT ever made.

 

Bass is the foundation of music.

 

Well, I don't agree. The foundation of music is simply the enjoyment of it, whatever each of our requirements and preferences may be. I love an occasional deep bass note, but there are many qualities of music much more important for my enjoyment than its bass.

So, what is the foundation of solo harpsicord, such as Glenn Gould playing The Goldberg Variations... or of Jean-Pierre Rampal playing flute sonatas? It certainly is not bass!

 

The reason I'm such a fan of the SuperOnes (unlike you, I didn't hear a significant difference between my originals and the additional two pairs of the 2.1s I bought for two other systems) is the do mid-range and treble very well. Having lived in too many cities in my earlier years, bass has become anathema to me so I like clean punchy bass but not shake the room/rumble in your chest frequencies.

I forgot if I asked you if you'd auditioned the SuperZeros? I have a pair of the old and new that I use in two rooms with a TV and integrated amp. They work great for regular TV but really great for Pandora, Spotify, YT music related vids through my Rokus). I think they are even better speakers than the SuperOnes but really would need a Sub to be well balanced in a standalone system for most people. Vocals and mid-range music are simply outstanding on these speakers (sorry, I don't know enough audiophile terms to describe them in that manner). I'm no good with oenophile terminology either even though I once took a serious class.

 

The C3s replaced SuperOnes in my theater system but both were satisfactory. My enjoyment of the C3s did increase when I set them to 'small.' I'm listening to C3s now, using the receiver's "P. Direct" to hear them without subs and room correction. Yes, I hear what you describe. Maybe Harman and those who prefer a tilt to the bass are onto something. I am enjoying the bass in Elton John's "Elderberry Wine" in direct mode. (Your Songs, $2 at GoodWill.) Not as warm but punchier than sub-assisted. I hear the difference from the SuperOne but I don't find it as objectionable.

I do really like the SuperOnes. The balance is such that one doesn't miss the absent deep bass in casual listening and speech intelligibility for video is superior to the bargain-price competition. It's interesting the NHT specs for bass are 55 for the C3 and 56 for the SuperOne. I'm not sure I could hear that distinction! My reasons for the change to C3s were the measured improvement in room response and the suggestion that the three-way crossover points would be kinder to voices. I find the sealed boxes easy to place in my room, an NHT advantage.

Value plays a part in my perception, too, with C3s close to $600/pr on Amazon, much less than the original $599/each. The SuperOnes are definitely more than half as good for half the price. The SuperZero is currently $70.64/each. Add bargain sub for good sound on the cheap.

You've done enough comparisons, but it would be fun to hear if you thought the C1 with the aluminum tweeter and 70 Hz bass were more like the C3 or the SuperOne.

 

Exactly. Bass is like sugar: when you are a child, the more of it the better. As you grow older you become aware of how sugar pushes other tastes and flavours away, and most people become increasingly intolerant of overly sweet foods. An interesting analogy to what happens in bass heavy audio systems IMO.

 

Do you know that in Chinese food, sugar is a basic food ingrediant that is added to almost everything they cook? Travelling in China, when I ask for "no sugar added to anything", their answer is usually "ok, but we cannot guarentee the food will taste good". Sugar heavy and bass heavy are both addictions.

 

I drive an older Lexus LX (Land Cruiser) with the Mark Levinson system that has a gazillion speakers. It is too bassy for me if I don't make that adjustment on the Bass tone control in the audio menu. I'm just not a deep bass guy. Maybe because I'm an aging boomer (OK Boomer!)

 

The "bass = sugar = immaturity" suggestion is pretty lame.

 

Really? How so?

 

In the sense that more = better, I don't think so. Both lots of bass and lots of sugar are strong sensations that children seem to appreciate more than adults, in general.

 

You are picking selections to fit your position. However, most music contains bass as it is the foundation.

BTW, the harpsicord reaches down to 50Hz, so there is bass.

 

Do not go for a cheap sub with the SuperZero. I made that mistake 20 years ago with I paired a cheap Kenwood powered sub (ordered from Crutchfield) with a pair of SuperZero. Back then, a pair of the SuperOne cost $350, and my thinking was to get more bass for the same money by pairing SuperZero ($250/pair) with a $100 powered sub. The result was horrible....muddy bass that smear the overall clear presentation of the SuperZero. Hearing the SuperZero without the powered sub was much preferred. I quickly returned the Kenwood sub.

Currently considering getting a pair of SuperZero from Amazon.

 

According the interwebs, a $350 speaker pair in 1997 would inflate to nearly $550 in 2019. At the moment, a pair of SO is about $260 at Amazon. Super Zeroes at $240 almost $375 now, compared to $140 actual. Obviously, things have changed a ton and the competition is ridiculous now, but it's fair to say that there is a certain amount of value in these little black boxes.

 

I just bought a pair of the SuperZero 2.1's at Amazon for $125. I see they're up a little. One of the guys at NHT told me, yes they're real (not counterfeit) and that Amazon was selling them for less than Amazon's cost. NHT isn't happy. Amazon is truly a shark business and aims to kill of all retail but themselves. I absolutely hate what Amazon has become but I bought them there anyway. To quote Doc Holliday from Tombstone, "It appears my hypocrisy knows no bounds."

 

I would like to list the audio equipment and source material used for these NHT comparisons.

Equipment:
Sony UBP-X1000es universal DVD player, stereo RCA outputs.
Direct TV decoder, stereo RCA outputs.
Music First Audio Classic V.2 passive transformer preamp.
McCormack Micro Drive amplifier.
(No multi-channel, no subwoofer, no external DAC)

Streaming subscriptions:
Slacker Radio
Sony MUBI
Berlin Philharmonic

Redbook CDs:
Nick Drake - Bryter Layter
Radiohead - Kid A
CCR - Chronical
Rachmaninoff Cto #2, Evgeny Kissen
John Coltrane - Giant Steps

Classic Records 24/96 DADs:
Music by Earnest Bruch
Muddy Waters - Folk Singer
Cannonball Adderly - Somethin' Else

BluRay Discs:
Lang Lang Live at Versailles
Steven Wilson - To The Bone
Yes - Fragile (remastered by Steven Wilson)

 

I cannot believe how inexpensive these truly great sounding and beautiful to look at NHT speakers sold for on Amazon, and are still selling for just $8 each higher than the price you paid. That is amazing. And on top of the price, Amazon's super fast delivery makes it a perfect scenario for the buyer. I think they are doing everything right, and definitely worth buying from AND investing in their stock.

It's no different than Home Depot putting local hardware stores out of business. At first, many of us felt manipulated and hurt that our old way of shopping for nails and tools was stolen from us, and a bunch of kids were given jobs instead of experienced hardware experts. But now that we are used to it, we enjoy having a bigger selection at lower prices. And Amazon will likewise revolutionize online sales and fast delivery.

 

The SuperZero 2.1'sand SuperOnes 2.1's at Amazon are sold by Amazon, and they'r an authorized dealer.

Amazon must've purchased a lot of the SuperZero 2.1's since they have been out of stock at NHT's website for months.

 

That's exactly it. I'm blanking on the NHT guy's name, maybe Eduardo or close to it, who used to run production for them. He's been with the company at least 20-25 years IIRC. Anyway, in the past, I'd always bought from them and was going to this time but they didn't have any to sell.

 

I have not heard a SuperZero, either version, but I recommend EXTREMELY highly the SuperOne 2.1. Compared to all the other models of NHT I did hear and compare, the SuperOne 2.1 is absolutely amazing. They do everything extremely well, in fact, the bass is so thumpy and clean, they don't even need a subwoofer, unless you want major home theater movie bass. Amazon has these for a very price also.

 

I would encourage you to consider getting a pair of the SuperZero 2.1's. As I own both the Zeros and the Ones, I think the Zeros are even better speakers so long as you understand they are going to be well shy of bass compared to the Ones. The Zero's mid-range clarity literally has to be heard to be believed. If you get them from Amazon Prime and don't like them, it was an almost cost-free experiment with their free return.