I cannot eliminate sibilance on my vinyl at all!!

Do you have a CD player or other digital device in your system too? If so, does the problem manifest there as well, or is it just an LP problem?

 

To give your problem the correct term; it's "sibilant distortion".

You won't get rid of it if you are using an OM10; it's has an elliptacal tip, which is too big. This is why Ortofon make OMs with smaller tips.

You will get far better performance with sibilant passages (and inner groove distortion in general) if you put the OM Stylus30 on the cartridge. It's really as simple as swapping the stylus.

 

+1 for trying a different styli.
I recently jumped up from Ortofon 2m blue (elliptical) to Benz Micro Wood (microline). I’ve been stunned by the removal of sibilance in places where I thought it was just part of the LP.

sibilance always has bothered me and I’ve spent a lot of time in the past aligning and re-aligning that 2M blue, but could never eliminate it.
When it was finally time to replace and I moved to a microline, the problem disappeared.

you can definitely reduce it with a good alignment, but I don’t think you can completely eliminate it with an elliptical stylus. At least I couldn’t.

Good luck

 

If everything else is setup correctly - as it was for 17 years, my guess is a worn stylus. Mine have sounded just like this when they were wearing out.

 

OM30 or 0M40: if you allready have OM5/OM10 you just need the stylus, not a new cartridge. That‘s the reason of my suggestion...

 

Hi,

I had exactly the same problem in the past. I am listening a lot to classical music, mostly opera recordings. And lot of these records are critical to track in the inner part of the grove. I have tried a few cartridges in the past (NOS Ortofon M20E, Sumiko Pearl, 2m Blue, Vinyl Master Silver) on my Pioneer PLX 1000. All of these had inner grove distortion! And yes - I aligned the cartridges exactly. Because my budget is limited, expensive MC cartridges are off.

The cart I am using now is the AT 440mlb. This thing tracked without any distortion on all of my records! The sound is less warmth, it is more on the prcise/analytical side. At first I had issues with the heights/treble, as documented a lot in the audiophile forums. I borrowed a phono stage with low input capacity (Pro-ject Phono Box DS) from a friend, that helped a lot. But the heights were still a little to harsh.

So I soldered a 100 kOhm resistor in a RCA-plug (per channel) and connected it via a Y-adapter before the phono stage input. So the input resistance was reduced from 47 kOhm to 32 k. Now the harsh heights are gone! This simple trick resulted in an almost linear frequency distribution.

Recently I bough a new amplifier - the new Cambridge AXA35 (very good build and sound quality for 350,- Euro!), which has a phono input for MM. I don't know the input capacity of this amp, but since the also new Cambridge phono stage "Solo" has only 100pF I suspect the AXA35 has the same. The sound quality of the AT 440mlb with the parallel resistors in combination with the AXA35 was incredible good.

So the AT 440mlb with parallel resistors (on a phono stage with low input capacity) this is in my opinion the best budget solution, if you want to avoid inner groove distortion.

Regards,
Michael.

 

Its because the stylus is a MicroLine design. That cart is discontinued also, although the 540 replaces it and betters it supposedly. Still, there are cheaper options, like just getting the Paratrace stylus for the 95E that he has or an AT150MLX which also has a MicroLine and is cheaper I think.

 

Here in Germany many online shops have the 440mlb on stock for 220 Euro. The AT150MLX is 400,- Euro! The other microline cartridges are > 300 Euro.

Regards,
Michael.

 

And once they are sold out you wont find any more. Dunno why the 150 is so expensive over there though, but it seems its also discontinued anyway.

 

Just not sure if you are mistaking sibilance (a hissing sound) with the much more common 120 cycle hum/buzz most all humming carbons have. If it is the hum/buzz thing, you will not hear it until the stylus hits the record, but when it does, the 120 cycle hum/buzz starts, it's much higher pitched than standard 60 cycle hum. If this is what it is, here is one man's partial fix, get out your power tools!

 

No - he is talking about sibilant distortion; distortion occurring during pronounced "esses". Sibilance isn't a hissing sound.

 

Ok,

sibilant
[ sib-uh-luh nt ]
SEE SYNONYMS FOR sibilant ON THESAURUS.COM
adjective
hissing.
Phonetics. characterized by a hissing sound; noting sounds like those spelled with s in this [th is] , rose [rohz] , pressure [presh-er] , pleasure [plezh-er] , and certain similar uses of ch, sh, z, zh, etc.

 

“Sibilance” as used by audiophiles is a jargon word used to mean exaggerated or distorted sibilants, something that just sounds off or unnatural when listening to singers’ consonants.

 

Oh go on then - dictionary wins as I'm feeling festive

 

Phil, what's it like in England today, it's pretty cold and raining here in Nashville, TN. I need to come visit you and stay for about two weeks, never been to England, York or Aberystwyth, would love to see the sites!

 

80/20 rule should apply here, and usually the case in most of these issues. The stylus is probably worn and I bet uneven wear due to incorrect install or not checking alignment regularly. Tonearms move back and forth, up and down a lot...do the math. Alignments get out of whack especially VTF, which will cause you some issues.
TT's have moving components, you need to check parts regularly, they are not DACs or streamers.

How about azimuth, have you checked it? If this is off, it will cause uneven wear pretty quickly.

 

I wouldn't recommend it - I live right by the sea. Too much hiss.

 

Way too much Sibilance for me, but I love the view! You know, you are probably hearing the sea and think it's your turntable??

 

As said Micro Line Cartridge, it worked for me. I now use Audio Technica
AT-VM95ML made in Japan all my vinyl
Sounds better since I switched to ML stylus
Even Peter Gabriel So vinyl is now transformed last track on side 1 and 2 used to be bad Sibilance ridden hell no longer.
Get an ML cartridge I did and it's great with my 40 year old Technics SL-Q2 turntable. Floyd.

 

The key line in your statement is " There is sibilance on almost every record I own ". I have found that sibilance is more a result of the mastering than it is of the turntable/cartridge. If you don't have a sibilance problem on all your records clears the turntable/cartridge. A damaged stylus can damage a record and where at one time you didn't notice sibilance, but then on later plays you do, your record is obviously damaged. I myself have tried re-aligning the cartridge, but one thing you have to remember, a stylus will wear slowly but will still wear in a particular pattern. If you then change the positioning of the cartridge and it has a worn stylus, you can damage a record when you play it again and damage other records you play after that.

In the old jukebox industry, with the most popular brand, Seeburg, used a tone arm with a cartridge on each side, using it's own stylus. These cartridges were manufactured by well-known Pickering. Eventhough both cartridges and their stylii were in the correct position for the rotation of the record(the turntable would change rotation depending on which side of the record it was playing), it was forbidden to swap the stylii between the cartridges. From personal experience, if you did this, it could ruin a record. If you put a used, but undamaged stylus into the same corresponding position of another tone arm, it wouldn't usually damage a record.

In mastering an audiophile record, attention is given to prevent sibilance. This was also done for classical records on some of the better labels. This kind of attention is not always given to the releases of new material by currently popular artists. The latest release by an artist who may have been around for awhile may not be or the same quality as an earlier recording which was remastered.

 

Interesting! I assume the styli on jukes are conical? I suppose the same would be true of an elliptical.. If we could reverse the direction of a Shibata, it would chew up the record. (just to support your point) Needless to say, the wear pattern on the stylus is directional. And since stylus wear is progressive, there is no "tipping point" that the stylus could be damaging a record. For this reason, it's important to change the stylus well before it shows signs of physical wear., or a "flat spot".

 

I would like to share two things I have observed about sibilance. I have rescued and refurbished a fair amount of vintage turntables. Most of them had their cartridges intact, and a wide variety of brands and stylus condition.

1) If a stylus "wants" to produce sibilance, there is almost nothing one can do to stop it... corrective actions are ineffective.
2) If a stylus does not produce sibilance, there is almost nothing we can do to cause it to fail., misalign it, drop it on the floor!

So let's talk about a stylus that tracks normally, which does not produce sibilance. I have encountered some pretty bad setups, loose cartridges, angled, and tilted. So the wear pattern on the stylus couldn't be normal. So, in some cases (certainly not all) I have aligned the cart by eye, simply to test the refurb'd turntable, replace the stylus and set it up. No sibilance.

Conclusions: the primary cause of sibilance is not the alignment. (not the top suspect) It's mistracking of the stylus. Mistracking is usually an inherent defect of the stylus and/or suspension, the pinch effect of a conical stylus, or a stiff suspension from age. An exception would be gross misalignment which can cause mistracking, in particular the azimuth. A leaning stylus from a lazy suspension, a bent or twisted cantilever runs a high risk of damaging your records.

Other observations:
Sibilance is the result of mistracking of the lateral cut groove, the mono component of the stereo signal.
Sibilance is mostly "pink noise" "ssshhh" sound (not hissing, although this term shouldn't throw anyone off the track)
Sibilance is entirely difference noise, or out to the sides.
Sibilance isn't produced in mono, but can occur from any record (incl a mono record) played on a stereo cartridge, with produces "sssh" to the sides.
Sibilance is almost entirely the by-product of a conical stylus
Sibilance is caused sometimes (often) from pinch effect, the inherent mistracking of a conical or mild elliptical stylus. Pinch effect can not be reduced nor eliminated by alignment nor adjustment. Corrective action in the setup, tracking force, changing arms, etc., have zero improvement. Changing the stylus to a better quality elliptical or line contact reduces or eliminates pinch effect and stops sibilant noise.
Sibilance is most produced from mistracking the 2Khz to 8Khz range, where groove pitch (angluar ramp and narrowing of the groove) is the highest and most difficult to track. The highest freqs from 8kHz to upward of 16kHz are easier to track by virtue that the levels are lower, therefore an "easier" groove. The groove pitch is not as acute.
Sibilance is caused by tracking force too light and out of range.
Sibilance is sometimes the master tape, and can be from bad mastering.
Sibilance is sometimes caused by pre-amp clipping/ overloading. Most preamps have ample headroom, but this shouldn't be overlooked.
Sibilance can be caused by arm resonance, cartridge incompatibility, although most arms and carts match well enough to not cause this kind of mistracking.

Sibilance is nasty! Look first into changing out the stylus (the stylus isn't always mounted squarely from the factory) and lastly into your setup. Yes, I know doing setup tweaks are a no-cost solution. How many times have I read sibilant problems, and the op has tried "everything" to stop it to no avail. Changing or upgrading the stylus usually takes care of it.

 

Yes, the stylus type of most jukes is conical, but seeing as how the magnetic cartridges most jukes use were made by Shure and Pickering, there are multiple choices of stylus type within those brands which are interchangeable regardless of what a cartridge came with. Most of the juke manufacturers offered both diamond and sapphire stylii. One of the common magnetic cartridges in Rock-ola jukeboxes was the Shure M44. I had a Rock-ola jukebox that the former owner had put a Shure "micro-ridge" stylus in. It was a disaster and actually damaged records, possibly to to the 3-5 grams the juke ran at. Later jukes used the Shure M77, like the later ones from Rowe and Wurlitzer.
Anyway, even a conical stylus can wear in the direction of record rotation. Because radio stations and D.J.s back-cued the records, the proper stylus was to use was the non-directional conical. When the conical stylus had worn, as a record was spun backwards to cue up, it would plow into the groove damaging it. This caused what is known as cue-burn. Also, some radio stations thought that they would get a better sound from using an elliptical stylus. Wrong. It damaged and wore the records even faster. This is especially true for records made of poly-styrene. Many radio stations requested that only vinyl records were sent to them. However, jukebox operators liked the records made out of poly-styrene because they were less susceptible to warping, especially if the juke was in a sunny location as well as the route service vans.

 

May I introduce myself? I am Arthur Slugworth, treasurer of the International Compact Disc Aficionado Alliance...

 

Well, I use the good old Denon DL103, conical stylus, and have absolutely zero Sibilance on any record. So, although in principle more advanced stylus shapes can in theory extract more information, and because of their larger footprint on the vinyl apply less pressure for a given tracking weight, there should be little difference between a conical and microline (etc) stylus shape regarding audible sibillance.

Now admittedly mine is mounted in an SMEIV, which is a pretty good arm as compared with a used Pro-ject table/arm, but at the end of the day I think that the advice of many above to look at arm alignment is absolutely the first thing to look at.