I finally burned an LP scammer on Ebay

Discussion in 'Marketplace Discussions' started by Led9, Sep 7, 2019.

  1. 12" 45rpm

    12" 45rpm Forum Resident

    Location:
    New York City
    I've sold around 100 things on ebay and discogs and have never been scammed. In fact, I have often got way more than I thought the item was worth... Even if I do get scammed, I have made so much extra cash to make it a non-issue..
     
    Fred68 likes this.
  2. TimB

    TimB A proud Pop Schlock Fan

    Location:
    Galion, Ohio USA
    Believe it or not, I was told the same thing happens with Rolex watches. A fake is returned.
     
  3. Strat-Mangler

    Strat-Mangler Forum Resident

    Location:
    Toronto
    PayPal/eBay don't care about that. I've read many people go through those lengths but never once have I read that evidence was ever considered or accepted in a dispute. I can sort of see how these videos could be staged and fake evidence would be created but still...

    And congrats on having the decision reversed!
    On a call with PayPal, I was completely taken aback and flabbergasted to hear this. I vividly remember blurting out something like "WTF??? So I can buy an expensive MacBook, create a dispute and ship a rock back to the seller and I'll get my money back?" The woman on the phone didn't have to think twice and answered in a scarily proud fashion "Yes!"

    So much for seller protection. When you decide to go with customers' sides no matter how rotten they are 99.9% of the time, stuff like that will happen. Unreal!
    Yeah, pretty crazy.

    Having said that, I've had some episodes as a buyer. An LP from Italy was advertised as "Mint, never seen the light of day" but it had a giant scratch on the first track I wouldn't dare put my expensive cart through. The seller, in spite of his flawless rating, was an aggressive jerk who refused to take it back. I told him I don't need his permission to create a PayPal dispute and that the crazy $35 US in shipping fees he charged me would need to be refunded too... as well as the $35 shipping it was going to cost me to ship it back to him. He refunded me and told me to keep the record. Cheaper for him that way.

    A couple of years ago, I bought a so-called "Mint" test pressing of an album which played as VG, tops. Huge disappointment. Again, jerk of a seller who refused to take it back but PayPal refunded me my money.

    Some of these sellers, in spite of being record shops (!!) clearly do not know the meaning of the phrase "Near Mint" or even the definition of the word "Mint".

    PayPal is the common element. Since they side with the buyer in almost 100% of cases regardless of circumstances, if paid using their service, any place has the potential to fall victim to this scam.
     
  4. captouch

    captouch Forum Resident

    Location:
    Bay Area, CA
    So basically the buyer will keep the album and you keep the $250. So the end result is a valid sale as it was originally intended and the buyer's attempt to scam you was foiled. And he's probably out whatever return shipping he paid to send you back whatever he put in the box that was sent back to you.
     
  5. Cherrycherry

    Cherrycherry Forum Resident

    Location:
    USA
    From what I gather, this situation of @Led9 getting to keep his/her $250.00 is a miracle.
    Not basic business as usual, no harm no foul.
     
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  6. Tjazz

    Tjazz Music is my Mistress

    Location:
    USA
    If someone has "Private Feedback" is that a bad sign?
     
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  7. Dave

    Dave Esoteric Audio Research Specialist™

    Location:
    Greater Vancouver
    Not necessarily, but it can certainly make wonder why a seller or buyer might choose to do this.
     
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  8. TheSeldomSeenKid

    TheSeldomSeenKid Forum Resident

    I have sold a few items on Discogs and EBay in recent years, but always try to sell items here first, as we have a great community overall of trusted SHF Members, including making things right like accepting returns hassle free. I do need to sell some items on Discogs or EBay though, if there is just not any interest here. Although, it is time consuming to create a listing on EBay(less so on Discogs), and I tend to put off listing a few items there, just because I have not put aside the time to list those items.

    I also prefer to buy from here, especially from certain Sellers, as Grading is more accurate, as even when buying a few CDs in the past from Sellers on Discogs and EBay with almost perfect Seller Ratings, I have received CDs listed as NM or M-, but really should be VG+ Or EXC at best and how I would grade those CDs, if I was to resell them, as does not seem like all Sellers view their CDs under a good desktop lamp light to see any marks, scratch lines, etc. The CDs usually play with no problems though, so not worth the hassle to return them for inaccurate Visual Grading(Over Graded).

    What really baffles me is seeing on occasion a Title of a CD listed on EBay as the DCC version, whereas the photos clearly show they are not DCC versions, but the low price usually is what makes me suspicious as DCC CDs in M- Condition are not usually available for only $10-$15. Then there is the whole specific Matrix text on the center hub when trying to buy a specific version of a CD, and hope the Seller answers honestly if contacted to verify, as some Sellers list certain versions of a CD Title under the wrong listing on Discogs(sometimes just an honest mistake by the Seller, but there are deceptive Sellers out there).
     
    Last edited: Sep 8, 2019
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  9. Dave S

    Dave S Forum Resident

    You can't sell if you have private feedback.
     
  10. flatsix-

    flatsix- Forum Resident

    Location:
    Las Vegas
    Learned a bunch in this thread, thanks! Levels people go to never surprise me. Scams are a cat and mouse game. Good to hear OP's wrong is getting righted.
     
  11. All Down The Line

    All Down The Line Forum Resident

    Location:
    Australia
    I thought the eBay site only supported photographic evidence and not videos???
     
  12. Led9

    Led9 Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Allentown, PA
    Just to clarify my original plan was the video, but because he was stupid enough to ship it at 9 ounces I have photographic evidence of the label showing the return label with 9 ounces on it.
     
  13. Dave S

    Dave S Forum Resident

    Most post office receipts here in the UK have the weight on them. There's no way you could ship an empty box.
     
  14. ggergm

    ggergm you can't rollerskate in a buffalo herd

    Location:
    Minnesota
    It isn't just PayPal. Credit card companies operate the same way. Nor is this a new scam. Back in my stereo store days, in the 1990s I had a $6,000 chargeback with Mastercard over the return of a piece that was missing all its guts. The recipient said somehow that happened in shipping, Yeah, right. :rolleyes:

    The secret to beating these thieves is the same now as it was back then. You have to prove the buyer had a fraudulent intent. In my case, I was suspicious of the buyer from the get-go and could show he planned this fraud from the beginning of his interaction with my store. In the OP's case, I suspect his antenna were tingling, too, early on, with the Priority Mail sending of the record, requiring a Priority Mail return. That was brilliant. He also used the buyer's previous actions to prove this was an ongoing fraud. That came in play in my case. I learned of other stereo stores my buyer had cheated.

    For anyone, I think the best bet as an Internet seller is to come up with a dollar amount below which you don't care. Maybe it's $25. Sure, if a legitimate buyer makes a return, you'll honor it, but if you get cheated by a thief for that amount or less, you won't go ballistic. It's not worth it. For anything over that figure, you start thinking this deal could potentially go south before you send the merchandise. You take suitable protections ahead of time so that if the buyer cries foul, you can prove that he's been trying to defraud you all along.

    The one mistake the OP and I both made is we sent the stuff. Even though something seemed wrong initially, we never should have made the sale. I wish I'd followed my gut and turned down the offer. It certainly wasn't worth the hassle. I bet the OP feels the same way.
     
    Last edited: Sep 8, 2019
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  15. ANALOGUE OR DEATH

    ANALOGUE OR DEATH Forum Resident

    Location:
    HULL ENGLAND
    Well done mate.I gave up selling on eBay a few years back.Too many nutters out there!
     
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  16. ANALOGUE OR DEATH

    ANALOGUE OR DEATH Forum Resident

    Location:
    HULL ENGLAND
    Well,I think most of us who have sold on auction sites have sometimes got more than we thought that the item was worth.However,the item is worth what the person who bought it paid for it,not what we thought it was worth to us.Scamming is scamming and needs to be called out every time.
     
  17. CraigC

    CraigC Forum Resident

    Location:
    LI, NY
    Did you end up opening the return? I’m curious what’s inside.
     
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  18. ANALOGUE OR DEATH

    ANALOGUE OR DEATH Forum Resident

    Location:
    HULL ENGLAND
    This is not what normally happens.
     
  19. ANALOGUE OR DEATH

    ANALOGUE OR DEATH Forum Resident

    Location:
    HULL ENGLAND
    Yes!
     
  20. 12" 45rpm

    12" 45rpm Forum Resident

    Location:
    New York City
    I guess what I meant was I got way more on ebay then I would if I tried sell locally . Local can never compete with a global market..

    So people who shun ebay because of a small chance of a scam are just scamming themselves of money in my opinion..

    I also have confidence ebay knows what they are doing when evaluating seller/buyer cases. They have all the algorithms to easily tell who is likely to be honest. Sure someone may get away with a scam once or twice, but more than that and ebay/paypal will easily detect it and ban the user.

    I would say one has same chance of being scammed selling locally anyways. Again , that's never happened to me because I am very careful of who I sell to..

    I wonder if people who get scammed often have some other issues going on with how they run their business. Maybe over-charging for things means they are more likely to indulge a scammer because they want the money so badly??
     
  21. All Down The Line

    All Down The Line Forum Resident

    Location:
    Australia
    Made me never start!
     
  22. Fred68

    Fred68 Loves Music

    Location:
    USA
    I've noticed that many eBay sellers state "no returns" in their listings. Does that prevent a seller from being scammed?
     
  23. 12" 45rpm

    12" 45rpm Forum Resident

    Location:
    New York City
    I would not buy from a seller who says "no returns". To me it's a red flag the seller is trying to wash their hands of junk in hopes the buyer does not complain.

    In any case the buyer can always return an item that does not match the description, regardless if it says "no returns".. Bottom line is honest sellers will generally always allow 30-day no questions asked returns.
     
    All Down The Line likes this.
  24. Strat-Mangler

    Strat-Mangler Forum Resident

    Location:
    Toronto
    Nope. Writing that in an auction is just a way for sellers to scare off would-be scammers or at least those who would casually take advantage of sellers. PayPal handles the payments and overrides whatever conditions are written in auctions.

    There have been some experiences reported on guitar forums of buyers borrowing equipment by returning it a month or two later. Meanwhile, that gear was used in bars or in a studio. The seller in those cases typically gets the gear back in worse condition than it left so the buyer screws the seller majorly in more ways than one.

    Being the victim of a $250 LP set is hard to stomach. Being the victim on a 4K guitar is even worse.

    Some tube sellers, for instance, write this in order to lessen the possibility of buyers using them for tube-rolling purposes. "Give them an inch, they'll take a mile" is certainly applicable here... hence those "no returns" disclaimers in more and more auctions, even though they don't actually carry any real weight.
     
  25. eddiel

    eddiel Forum Resident

    Location:
    Toronto, Canada
    Well yes and no.

    There's a known forger on eBay right now. Someone left him negative feedback about the forgeries and the seller managed to get eBay to delete them.

    None of his items have ever sold at the level they should sell if they were real so he's mainly surviving on the ignorance of buyers.

    No amount of complaining to eBay will ever get him taken down.
     
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