I finally burned an LP scammer on Ebay

Discussion in 'Marketplace Discussions' started by Led9, Sep 7, 2019.

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  1. eddiel

    eddiel Senior Member

    Location:
    Toronto, Canada
    I wonder how this would work if he decided to try his luck with Paypal as well. eBay and Paypal are no longer linked as they once were so I wonder if the seller made a claim through Paypal, after being denied on eBay, if Paypal would allow the seller to make a claim and let the process run?
     
    Dave likes this.
  2. Led9

    Led9 Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Allentown, PA
    Interesting thought. If I was denied on Ebay that might have been a valid option. Although since it was on my credit card it would be easier to just challenge the charge with Visa probably.
     
  3. Dave Garrett

    Dave Garrett Senior Member

    Location:
    Houston, TX
    Depends on whether you're willing to risk having your eBay and/or Paypal account shut down. They don't like chargebacks.
     
  4. The Warped Vinyl Junkie

    The Warped Vinyl Junkie Forum Resident

    Just wanted to throw in here that I've spent thousands on Discogs from more buyers than I can count...and either I've been very, very lucky, or the folks who sell there are mostly vinyl fanatics like me...but the worst thing I've been up against on there is a bit of overgrading. When I call that to the seller's attention, I generally let them know that I am NOT asking for any refund, but that I'm just hoping they'll take a look at their grading practices so the same thing doesn't happen to other people. Most of them refund my money anyway; the only one that didn't was one who had sent me a practically unplayable (terribly shrunken and warped) record and then sent me HALF the price back, since "it was the only copy that has ever been on Discogs." Still got my eyes out for one that's actually trackable...

    So, overall, no--I don't think there are the same class of people buying and selling on Discogs that you'll find on eBay--and most of the folks who hang out there at least know the difference between F- and VG+, which I can't say for a large percentage of the eBay crowd.
     
    JasonA likes this.
  5. Dennis Metz

    Dennis Metz Born In A Motor City south of Detroit

    Location:
    Fonthill, Ontario
    and why would you sell to him?
     
  6. JonUrban

    JonUrban SHF Member #497

    Location:
    Connecticut
    This thread reflects exactly why I no longer sell on eBay. I was a big seller back from 1999-2003 and eBay was fun and buyers and sellers sort of got to know each other. In fact, some of my buyers turned out to be SHF'ers who continue to be around today. Back then PayPal was a different company and I recall a time when eBay did not allow you to use PayPal as a method of payment!!

    Sure, I'll buy stuff on eBay but sell? No way. Not something rare and worthy. Too risky.
     
  7. formu_la

    formu_la I'm not a robot

    Location:
    Toronto, Canada
    It was possible to leave negative to a buyer before. When they removed that option a while ago, they opened a door wider for scammers, spoiled brats and other categories of indecent buyers.
    If in a case like OP described someone left negative with detailed comment, other sellers would be protected.
     
    AaronW and rnranimal like this.
  8. no.nine

    no.nine (not his real name)

    Location:
    NYC
    And that's when I stopped selling on ebay. And mind you, I never even needed to leave negative feedback for a buyer back then. But no checks and balances? No, thank you.
     
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  9. rnranimal

    rnranimal Senior Member

    Location:
    Ohio
    I've been selling on eBay for over 20 years and I'm done now. Haven't been selling much in the last few years. Just some smaller things here and there and I guess I was lucky to not run into any of the many scammers. Until a couple months ago, that is. The seller has zero power against return BS from buyers. I sold a laptop. Then the buyer wanted to return it because they said it didn't turn on. So I sent a return label. I receive the laptop back and it turns on perfectly every time I press the button. This was a parts/repair sale with other issues but it did in fact power up. So I notice a screw now missing from the back of the laptop and open it up to find marker scribbling all over the battery which was not on the one I sent. This buyer is also a laptop refurbisher on ebay. I'm sure what happened was they received the laptop and, even though it was exactly as described, they couldn't find anything of value for them in their refurbishing projects (except maybe swapped out some smaller stuff they could use) so they made a false NAD return claim so they wouldn't have to pay return shipping.

    So I was out shipping and received back a laptop missing pieces and with a different battery. Then ebay tells me I'm free to relist it! Gee, thanks. I'll list it again and have the same thing happen and be out even more $$ and maybe this time they'll swap out the good hard drive after they pick through it and it actually won't power up.

    A lot of scammers are well away of how ebay operates and it's a free for all for them. Even if ebay decides to side with you initially, the buyer can appeal and if you're so lucky as to get ebay to side with you again, the buyer can then start disputes with PayPal and if by some miracle PayPal side with you, they can do a chargeback on the credit card.

    It's not just on ebay. No PayPal sale is safe anymore. They give 180 days for a buyer to start a dispute. They have also announced (not sure if in effect yet) that they will no longer refund fees on refunds.
     
    Last edited: Nov 12, 2019
    formu_la likes this.
  10. 12" 45rpm

    12" 45rpm Forum Resident

    Location:
    New York City
    Sounds like a lot of trouble and risk to steal a measly used battery.. Plus you said it still turns on after you got it, so seems it is in similiar condition to when you sold it..

    You can't pay people to take old computers away.. So surprising someone is trying to "steal" worthless parts..
     
  11. hvbias

    hvbias Midrange magic

    Location:
    Northeast
    I remember in 1999 sending money orders and checks to buy things off Ebay! Never got burned once.
     
  12. rnranimal

    rnranimal Senior Member

    Location:
    Ohio
    No I’m sure stealing a battery was not the plan. I’m not even sure the battery was swapped and they didn’t just write on the one in it. It had testing results written on it. Like I said, I’m guessing they took it apart and didn’t find anything of value for their refurbishing needs and so wanted to return it. Then claimed it didn’t power up as the reason so they wouldn’t have to pay shipping.

    My general point was about the risk of selling on eBay when buyers can basically do what they want at the sellers expense. So I won’t hijack the thread describing my item and situation in further detail but your assessment is not accurate.

    I was jerked around and out money over an item I described and delivered properly. It was a cheap lesson on what recourse I have when selling on eBay.

    Valuable vinyl is definitely something I will no longer be selling on there. I hope everything worked out for the op.
     
  13. Dave

    Dave Esoteric Audio Research Specialist™

    Location:
    B.C.
    :agree: I remember those days with the same results as well. Ahhh, the good old days.
     
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  14. 12" 45rpm

    12" 45rpm Forum Resident

    Location:
    New York City
    I still think what happened to your item is hardly anything of concern.. You sold something for parts/repair and got back something in the same functionality. You were just out the shipping cost.

    Reading between the lines it sounds like you want a selling platform that is 100% perfect. If it has one bad apple you don't want to use it.. The problem is all the alternatives are much worse.. Either you lose money by having to heavily discount the price or you waste your time trying forever to find the perfect buyer..
     
    Christian Hill likes this.
  15. rnranimal

    rnranimal Senior Member

    Location:
    Ohio
    My example was not meant as a major hardship. In fact I said it was a cheap lesson. You’re missing my point and looking at my finger instead of what I’m pointing at. It was an example and easily could’ve applied to me selling a $300 lp, which was going to be my next sale. You think eBay is going to do anything different if someone returned that lp in lesser condition than I sent it? The buyer holds all the power. I’ve used my experience to make the decision not to take that risk. If you sell on eBay and feel good about it, that’s nice.

    Don’t tell me what I expect. That’s quite the assumption. I’ve been selling on eBay since basically the beginning and was happy with it for many years. Then they started changing things and I started reading the many horror stories of what buyers can get away with now. What I experienced, although not a serious loss, exposed a liability I’m not willing to deal with.
     
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  16. kwadguy

    kwadguy Senior Member

    Location:
    Cambridge, MA
    The killer thing now is that you do not get your PayPal fees back when you refund. So you not only get burned on the item, but eBay keeps about 3% of the total cost (including shipping) no matter what.
     
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  17. 12" 45rpm

    12" 45rpm Forum Resident

    Location:
    New York City
    What alternative selling platform are you using that doesn't have this "liablity"? What you experienced actually shows the strength of ebay in that in twenty years that's the only "horror" story you experienced..
     
  18. rnranimal

    rnranimal Senior Member

    Location:
    Ohio
    You're still at this? You either have a comprehension problem or your hobby is arguing on the internet for the hell of it. I never said mine was a "horror" story. I've stated quite the opposite multiple times now. I've also stated my point multiple times, which you keep missing and shifting. And the issue was when certain changes were made so no, your point about 20 years of selling doesn't apply. Do you have someone else you can pester?
     
  19. uzn007

    uzn007 Watcher of the Skis

    Location:
    Raleigh, N.C.
    Yes, good suggestion IMO from @hvbias .
     
  20. statcat

    statcat Forum Resident

    Location:
    New Jersey
    I understand why they removed it all those years ago though - retaliatory feedback is definitely a real thing.
     
    uzn007 likes this.
  21. statcat

    statcat Forum Resident

    Location:
    New Jersey
    ebay has nothing to do with that and they don't own paypal anymore. Paypal keeps that money but since ebay wants to phase them out completely soon that shouldn't be a problem.
     
  22. ArpMoog

    ArpMoog Forum Resident

    Location:
    Detroit
    This is a big deal. Its gets a lot worse too. Scammers swapping or steeling parts on vintage gear ect. I have a friend who sold a Analog synth in the 2500
    range. The thief pulled the cards and sent it back. They are still fighting it out.
    I suggested we get a few of the boys and go pay him a visit old school but hes not ready for that yet.
    Ive thought about selling some gear but will stick with face to face through craigslist.
     
    rnranimal likes this.
  23. rnranimal

    rnranimal Senior Member

    Location:
    Ohio
    It's a real thing on both directions, though. But just the seller's ability to call out a bad buyer was removed. So sellers have no idea how many times a buyer has pulled something. Especially since the more I read from sellers, the more of them aren't reporting the buyer so even ebay isn't aware. The reason they don't report the buyer is because if they ask ebay to step in and ebay sides with the buyer (as they almost always do) then the seller doesn't get their final value fees back either. So sellers just decide to eat the other costs so that they don't end up losing even more money and the buyer got away with it completely and is free to keep doing it.
     
    formu_la likes this.
  24. rnranimal

    rnranimal Senior Member

    Location:
    Ohio
    That's exactly the kind of stories I've been reading about. People having hundreds or thousands of dollar items being damaged, replaced or parts swapped and the buyer getting refunded.

    I'll sell on Craigslist as well or just not sell. I don't sell much anymore anyway.
     
  25. ANALOGUE OR DEATH

    ANALOGUE OR DEATH Forum Resident

    Location:
    HULL ENGLAND
    I gave up selling on eBay a few years ago now.Not because I was being scammed,but just that I got fed up will all the work involved.Also,I started selling at record fairs and doing car boots.I find it much more enjoyable having the face to face interaction.Also buyers can fully check the record first hand,and regular customers always come back.Sure,you miss out on getting the big bucks sometimes that a worldwide internet customer base can give,but for me the advantages easily outweigh any negatives.
     
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