I finally listened to an Yngwie Malmsteen/Rising Force album today

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by Stephen J, Jun 23, 2018.

  1. mark winstanley

    mark winstanley 5.1 should be mandatory for my favourite albums

    Hmmm that may be one for me, I'm used to it lol
     
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  2. mark winstanley

    mark winstanley 5.1 should be mandatory for my favourite albums

    It was a beautiful, sadly rare thing
     
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  3. Man at C&A

    Man at C&A Forum Resident

    Location:
    England
    It got me playing U2 more than I have in years and even buying more recent albums that I'd had barely any interest in before, along with the Under A Blood Red Sky DVD. There were a lot of knowledgeable and articulate people on that thread.
     
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  4. Anthrax

    Anthrax Forum Resident

    Location:
    Europe
    Who said it was supposed to sound any other way?
     
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  5. Partyslammer

    Partyslammer Lord Of The New Church

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  6. mark winstanley

    mark winstanley 5.1 should be mandatory for my favourite albums

    Far beyond the sun - from the debut.

    If you're game and open minded, listen to this. It is a great piece of music executed really well.
    We have some nice rock/metal type riffs, mixed with some wonderful arpeggios.
    I suppose for some they hear the arpeggios and just think, fast playing.... but listen the the emphasis points that highlight the melody, just like they do in classical music.
    Listen to the beautiful and very selective vibrato, after the overture type section. Sure it is technically good, but it is musically good also.
    There is plenty of fast playing here, but it is quite balanced with the linking melody lines and riffs, and like I say, listen for the accent points in the arpeggios, and even the phenomenal (actual) guitar solo. Even with all the scaler and arpeggiaic runs in there, it is highlighted by beautifully held accents and phrase endings.
    Sure it isn't everyone's cup of tea, but neither is Beefheart or Stravinsky or Gang Of Four..... but I can't hear a lack of passion and involvementvftom the player.

     
  7. Rose River Bear

    Rose River Bear Forum Resident

    It is as if Wagner and Paganini or Fritz Kreisler were jamming with the Mahavishnu Orchestra. :D
    Keep in mind, it has to be lacking "emotion" and "soul" because they don't like it.
     
  8. mark winstanley

    mark winstanley 5.1 should be mandatory for my favourite albums

    Lol
     
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  9. Strat-Mangler

    Strat-Mangler Personal Survival Daily Record-Breaker

    Location:
    Toronto
    He's worked with everyone. It would be a shorter list to name people he didn't work with.

    IIRC, he also worked with him for a superior tune called Blue Eyes Blue which was ignored and didn't last long on the radio.
     
  10. Simoon

    Simoon Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Los Angeles
    I didn't say it wasn't based in classical structures. What it is based on, as far as classical music is concerned, is first year, composition 101, education. It's like a poor imitation of classical music from 1840.

    Not at all. I was saying almost the exact opposite. Classical music has come a long way since Paganini died.

    But of course, Yngwie fancies himself a modern day Paganini, so it follows that this is the kind of orchestral music he would write and perform.

    But let me add, I am not slagging Yngwie in general. I like his playing. I am only referring to this orchestral piece.
     
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2020
  11. Simoon

    Simoon Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Los Angeles
    Yeah...

    Please keep me up to date on when Yngwie attains the same level of: improvisational skill, jazz theory, musical vocabulary, compositional skills, as McLaughlin.

    Comparing Yngwie to McLaughlin, is like comparing Liberace to Keith Jarrett.
     
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  12. Strat-Mangler

    Strat-Mangler Personal Survival Daily Record-Breaker

    Location:
    Toronto
    This forum is so welcoming that it also includes the completely deaf. Nice of you to join us but clearly, you'd have to use something called hearing before you could express anything about musicality. You're obviously unqualified. :laugh:

    Depends. Let's take these one by one.

    1. Yngwie plays too fast. Yes, he is rarely one to use restraint and definitely not one player I'll be able to use the word "tasteful" in regards to his playing. Gary Moore is another example of an obviously ridiculously talented player who more often than not would just play cascading notes instead of playing something musical but it's not like he's incapable. GM's playing on the "BBM" record is fantastic and melodic. Yngwie's playing can also be musical but too often, I find him to be uninspired and resort to playing scales as a circus trick instead of creating any musical ideas.

    The issue with playing fast is too few players' musical brain can seldom play tons of notes and make them musical. It's far too difficult to be that highly musically intelligent but far less to play fast whatever notes can be easily chained together without much coherence beyond them fitting in the scale the song is. EVH is a good example of a player who was able to accomplish this. Especially on the first two albums, his solos were fun, interesting, and musically wonderful. Watching anyone break down the musical ideas and working them up to speed is a surefire way to appreciate his immense talent even more. Though there are some exceptions, I find a lot of his solos are uninspired copy/paste jobs. To relate to EVH, I've also heard live examples of him being uninspired and doing boring crappy tapping.

    Lastly, just as with limiting and digital compression restricting dynamics (if there is no quiet, there can be no loud), being mostly a one-trick pony such as pretty much being known for speed and playing at full throttle from the opening to last note can be tiring and boring as there aren't dynamics. So there isn't much impact to be felt from the speed and fury of the playing. Kind of like listening to Norah Jones ; because there's nothing faster than 40 bpm (barely exaggerating), to me, none of her tunes evoke any kind of introspective beauty that she seems to try to project. Variety is the spice of life.


    2. No melody. Relates to point 1 in the sense that it's much harder to create melody when playing fast. Sure, guys like Chopin have done it but it was written over long periods of time whereas in cases of Yngwie, he's largely playing off the top of his head. Having the ability to create melody on the spot playing at lightning speeds is quite a tall order. Guys like Jeff Healey can do it effortlessly while incorporating motifs from Greig's In The Hall Of The Mountain King for good measure but it's a completely different goal and musical perspective. Yngwie has shown he can be melodic. It's just that too often, he prefers to show off his best assets (blazing speed) rather than explore something deeper. With more time and no audience to pander to, he has much more ability to reign it in and go beyond the "hey, look what I can do!" stuff.

    There are lots of players in the 70s I find boring but are revered here. In the end, there's no accounting for tastes. Some go crazy for a Neil Young one-note solo which I find just as boring and unmusical as the "guitar falling down the stairs" feel of some Yngwie solos. As I'm writing this, I'm listening to Heart's Magazine. The title track has a short but nice solo. Fast playing, stop, long slow bends, etc. There's a story there.

    3. It's all the same thing. Not necessarily a bad thing if that's what the listener is into. Plenty of Yngwie fans ready to pay for tickets and albums. AC/DC has been doing the same thing for (what?) almost 45 years and people love them for it as well. Myself, I prefer some variety throughout the listening of an album. Love Back In Black, but sitting through the entire thing where each song will start with a driving drums and a loud ringing A chord gets old after a while and I need to take a break from it. Same thing with Yngwie's albums. Some gems here and there but I'd have a hard time listening in one shot through the whole thing.
     
  13. mark winstanley

    mark winstanley 5.1 should be mandatory for my favourite albums

    Variety comes in many forms though. I doubt many folks only listen to Yngwie. If I want laid back, I'll put on JJ Cale, or Kind Of Blue (although there is some fast playing on there, so perhaps it isn't melodic lol) or Albinoni's Adagio.
    ------------------
    I guess we'll have to agree to disagree really, because although you put forward a perspective pretty well, I just don't agree with it.
    I am not a huge Malmsteen collector or anything, I only have the first 5 albums, so sure he may have a lot that isn't great ... which essentially means for me if I move into hyper critic mode, nobody does really.
    I could play devil's advocate and tear down just about any band or artists there is, but I gave that up about thirty years ago, after it started taking the joy of music away and making it a purely academic thing.
    I actually quit playing and listening to music for a year, due to the fact I could find reasons to dislike everything.

    For me it's purely a case of what I feel like listening to. It could be Zappa, Ultravox, Sabbath, Vai, Rickie Lee Jones, Decemberists, Devin Townsend, Coltrane, Smokie, Mozart, Dylan (acoustic or electric, just not the American songbook) Elvis Presley, King Crimson, OMD .... etc etc etc but when I am in the mood for neo-classical lead by guitar, it is going to be Yngwie, or Cacophony Speed Metal Symphony.... but I guess that's why the arena is large and the palette broad
     
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  14. Rose River Bear

    Rose River Bear Forum Resident

    Come now. I was referring to the breakdown part of the piece. Mc Laughlin and Yngwie are two very different players coming from somewhat different musical vocabularies.
    OK I get that you like JM more than YM.
    BTW-If you would care or should I say dare to, I can make the argument based on a technical and guitar playing basis that both players have some strengths that they do not share. Care to go for it? It has to be strictly technical and not just impressions.
     
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  15. JakeKlas

    JakeKlas Impatiently waiting for an 8-track revival

    Location:
    United States
    Thought I’d throw a little love Malmsteen’s way for times when he actually... grooved.

    He had a period with Eclipse, Fire & Ice, and a bit with Seventh Sign where he got a bit bluesy and and loosened up a bit.

    For me, he kind of lost that with later studio albums. But I really enjoyed those moments where it wasn’t straight, heavy neo-classical that he was more known for.

    From Eclipse there was Making Love (extended solo version, please) and Bedroom Eyes.
    From Fire & Ice we had Dragonfly and the title track.
    Seventh Sign had I Don’t Know.

    Songs like those really stood out because they seemed (to me) to expand his style just a bit and I appreciated the additional flavor. It wasn’t like it wasn’t there in some ways before, it just seemed more intentional on these albums. It was like the experience with Odyssey opened him up a little bit more.
     
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2020
  16. Rose River Bear

    Rose River Bear Forum Resident

    Well then, lets discuss the Sarabande in technical detail. You start with discussing how it is a poorly structured or as you say a poor imitation of a Sarabande.
    BTW- Classical music did not come a "long way" since Paganini. It changed.
     
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  17. Strat-Mangler

    Strat-Mangler Personal Survival Daily Record-Breaker

    Location:
    Toronto
    That's pretty extreme!

    Some will judge artists. Although there are some exceptions, I tend to go song by song. Some songs are cool ; others not. No artist is perfect and has output I love wholeheartedly.
     
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  18. mark winstanley

    mark winstanley 5.1 should be mandatory for my favourite albums

    Sadly it was necessary. I would just tear everything to shreds for what it wasn't, rather than enjoying it for what it was. Musical Shock Therapy :)
     
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  19. Sear

    Sear Forum Resident

    Location:
    Tarragona (Spain)
    I admit I have my bias towards this guy. I don't like him, and this affects my judgement about his music
     
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  20. BackScratcher

    BackScratcher Forum Resident

    Location:
    Boston
    I can envision Yngwie dressing like Liberace.
     
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  21. mark winstanley

    mark winstanley 5.1 should be mandatory for my favourite albums

    Yngwie is very opinionated, and I get the impression he is insecure, and it plays out in the arrogance..... he makes it hard to think he's a guy you could have a beer with, and that can effect how we hear his music....
    I work on the principle that I like the music, so I'll just leave it there. The cult of personality and celebrity doesn't interest me much .... but I really do understand why someone would be effected by his stupid comments
     
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  22. sillycornelius

    sillycornelius Forum Resident

    Location:
    Asheville, NC
    This would've been an interesting pairing...

     
  23. unclefred

    unclefred Coastie with the Moastie

    Location:
    Oregon Coast
    The first Rising Force album was a landmark, and no, neither him nor Mozart played too many notes. If you can't find melody there, it's your lack, not his. He was fresh and blew a lot of doors off. However, he may be close but he's no Michael Schenker. ;)

    I really don't get the complaint about him playing Albinoni and Paganini...

     
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