I got whupped by an Ebay creep yesterday

Discussion in 'Marketplace Discussions' started by Pete Puma, Jan 30, 2007.

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  1. dgsinner

    dgsinner New Member

    Location:
    Far East
    I felt exactly the same when the first few times it happened to me. What really made me upset was that, at the time, I couldn't figure out how on earth some of those snipers got those bids in the last 10 seconds of the auction.

    The fact is, the auction is open until it closes. I adapted. If you want to increase your number of wins, so should you. Many of the posters here who are analyzing the ethics of bidding strategies sound like they've never been to a live auction. It's a card came and it's no different online. Whether that compels you to put in an early bid or a last minute snipe, as long as it's done while the auction is open it's fair game.

    Dale
     
  2. Roland Stone

    Roland Stone Offending Member

    Correct, meaning if anyone has a "right" to complain about sniping, it's the sellers. Unlike a physical auction house, the eBay clock expires regardless of the bidding activity, meaning sellers don't get to enjoy the fruits of a bidding war that might erupt over emotional reactions to late snipe bids.

    Sellers would probably prefer a system whereby the auction ended five minutes after the last high bid, allowing everyone to get in their hot-headed, retaliatory drive-the-price-up/I'm-gonna-win-regardless bids.
     
  3. heaudio

    heaudio New Member

    Location:
    Glendale, AZ
    ...รก la Audiogon.
     
  4. dprokopy

    dprokopy Senior Member

    Location:
    Near Seattle, WA
    I kinda thought about a system like that as well, and the pros and cons of it. It certainly doesn't hurt the sellers, as you mention - if anything, it benefits them (and, therefore, eBay) if it does spark some outrageous bid wars. And it eliminates sniping altogether (for better or worse). It'd be interesting if ebay allowed sellers to pick that sort of option, or the silent auction model, or use the current "deadline" option. But the way things are set now, it's definitely stacked against those who don't have (or chose not to use) sniper software.
     
  5. It's not stacked against me, I do BIN. Works great!
     
  6. MikeP5877

    MikeP5877 V/VIII/MCMLXXVII

    Location:
    OH
    I snipe...I've been sniped.... such is life. I can't understand for the life of me why people have a problem with it. Would we feel better if we got outbid 5 hours earlier instead of at the last second?

    As Mick says, "you can't always get what you want"....



    btw, I don't use any automated sniping tools, mainly because I'm too lazy to get one, not because of any "ethical" issues. I don't really buy that much on eBay anyway...

    now back to our thread...
     
  7. Mike Dow

    Mike Dow I kind of like the music

    Location:
    Bangor, Maine
    Guys,

    Lets cool it with the personal attacks, OK? Obviously, we have members who have different views on sniping. There is no need for harsh words here. Several posts have already been deleted and if you want this thread to remain open, cease the personal stuff NOW.
     
  8. Ed Bishop

    Ed Bishop Incredibly, I'm still here

    It's not a by-product of wanting to win, because unless you're gonna bid early and high enough to have a good shot at winning, you're not only driving up the price snipers will have to pay, but for yourself. And since only an idiot bids early to pay more later, we will assume they've no real intention of winning at all, and are just jerking around. If so, that's legal, I suppose, but rather pointless. If you want something badly enough, wouldn't you still want to pay the least amount for it? And, if you had money to burn, why bother with early bidding when you can just sit back and bid a ridiculous amount over everyone else and win?

    :ed:
     
  9. How about this--something that I often do that doesn't result in paying the least amount, but at least results in me winning the auction:

    I'll often see an auction for something that I'd like that does not have a BIN. Sometimes, these auctions have been going on for days without any bids. So, what do I do? I send a question to the seller asking them if they will put up a BIN. 90% of the time they edit their listing to put up a BIN price. Most of the time, I buy it, unless the BIN price is totally ridiculous.

    It's a good way for me to avoid sniping and still get what I want.
     
  10. ashlee5

    ashlee5 Senior Member

    As a seller, I always put BIN when one is requested, at the level considering a few factors (my cost and the number of watchers, for instance). 90% of the time the requester buys it. :)
     
  11. Roland Stone

    Roland Stone Offending Member

    Because I don't like to wait out auctions, I usually use half.com for OOP CDs and ocassionally amazon.com. It seems to me that Amazon skews higher in price than Half, possibly because it's more frequented by buyers.

    Unfortunately none of the big resellers -- eBay, Half or Amazon -- is very much help finding OOP classical music. An Amazon seller did provide me with a coveted OOP Everest Krips/Beethoven cycle, and a promo-stamped copy no less!
     
  12. ashlee5

    ashlee5 Senior Member


    This is just how you see it. No bidder wants to pay more for the item if he can help it. Although the tactic of bidding early and often might well be unwise, the motive still is to win (and not to pay more to the seller). :)
     
  13. Ed Bishop

    Ed Bishop Incredibly, I'm still here

    That does happen...but then you weren't in a sniping situation, which is what we're discussing here. Most of us have won auctions where no one else bid, or whoever did forgot, or didn't snipe, leaving us to reap the benefit and pay a lot less for something very desirable...:)

    But when an auction is active near the end, you gotta do something, or you're guaranteed to lose. And if it's very active near the end, you can be sure it's being sniped by someone. I've gone to sleep and even forgotten a few auctions, woke up the winner. I've also awakened angry that I lost because I forgot to snipe it...:D

    What I said above is applicable here, too. If the auction remains quiet, then bidding early may not be a bad thing. But to assume that it will stay that way is often wishful thinking, which is why it still makes sense to wait until near the end, put in a bid, and wait, see what happens(if anything).

    :ed:

    :ed:
     
  14. dgsinner

    dgsinner New Member

    Location:
    Far East
    I agree, stop the personal attacks.

    It's easy to see why people are resorting to it though--people feel so personally involved with the bidding, with the psychological relationship to the auction they're involved in (as one poster above noted), it all seems so personal. The first few times I was sniped, yes, it seemed like a slap, but you know what? I got over it. I didn't resort to the weirdness that some eBayers do, like the time I sniped, won and received a cryptic email from one of bidders saying that "what you did to me, I will do to you, and more."

    Folks, it's not personal. It's an online auction with a defined set of impersonal rules and ending time. I suppose you could see sniping as sneaky, but immoral? Whoever said you must declare your intentions at the onset? The fact is, online bidding, or any bidding (I think I mentioned card games, right?) involves bidding strategy. I'm no high roller, so when I'm bidding on something that a lot of people might be interested in, has a potentially high bid value and is something I want, why on earth would I announce to the bidding world that I'm interested in it? Are you kidding? My ratio of wins to losses has greatly increased since I started sniping and I make no apologies about it. Calling it unethical, or immoral, or whatever really is a joke--it is part of the process. People who can't handle that need to take their business where they feel more comfortable--like BINs, online stores or the like.

    What I find completely unethical, and have seen it quite a few times, is when a seller doesn't honor a winning bid (obviously having received a higher post auction end offer). The last time this happened to me, the seller wrote that it broke his heart to tell me this, but the white vinyl UK Let It Be I'd won got warped beyond repair on the kitchen counter--too close to the hot range. I wrote back OK whatever. I didn't write "since when does a long-time record collector and seller bring a valuable piece of vinyl to the kitchen counter and set it next to the range while his wife is cooking dinner?"

    Sniping? No ethical problem at all. It's a auction for gawdsake. The serious ethical questions, IMO anyway, regard things like the above, accurate descriptions, postage/handling bait and switches, and the like.

    Dale
     
  15. The only times I have had sellers refuse to do this is when they've said that there are people watching the auction. Of course, this is completely understandable on their part, and I wouldn't expect them to post a BIN price in that situation.
     
  16. ashlee5

    ashlee5 Senior Member

    Hmm ... why would this be? Are the classical buyers less likely to let their music collection go? I'm curious to read some speculations as to why. :wave:
     
  17. ashlee5

    ashlee5 Senior Member

    Do you think it is unethical to betray the watchers? I've never thought about this. My practice is that I put the BIN price a bit higher if there are more people watching. :p :shh:
     
  18. dprokopy

    dprokopy Senior Member

    Location:
    Near Seattle, WA
    I'm amazed how often I find DCC and MFSL stuff on half.com for a lot less than what they eventually sell for on eBay. In fact, my general practice, if I'm wanting to buy one of those, is to check both, bid on eBay for a bit less than what I see it going for on half.com, and if I lose the eBay one, just snap it up off of half.com. And I don't think I've ever run into an instance where the half.com item disappeared before I went back to buy it (yet).

    Unfortunately, it's a bit harder to find other used stuff on half, since you never quite as sure which version of a disc they've got. At least most of the eBay sellers usually put in a decent description (of course, whether their grading is accurate is another question), and oftentimes post an actual picture of the disc they have. Half.com unfortunately doesn't allow for that.
     
  19. That's not exactly where I was coming from. Heck, the seller just wants to sell the goods, and doesn't owe any loyalty to people merely watching an auction. I just thought that it would not be in the sellers interest to post a BIN because if a ton of people are watching the auction, the potential exists for a bidding war which could drive up the price higher than an arbitrarily set BIN.

    Simply watching an auction doesn't necessarily mean the watcher is going to bid at a later time. I've watched plenty of auctions before with no intention of placing a bid. I've simply wanted to know how much something has sold for!
     
  20. ashlee5

    ashlee5 Senior Member

    Gotcha. Thanks. :) :wave:
     
  21. Roland Stone

    Roland Stone Offending Member

    I suspect the lack of a uniform database to ease searches and listings is as much to blame as anything else. Heck, hunting down new, in-print classical music can be difficult.

    The only worthwhile classical search engines I've encountered on-line are the Tower Records and Arkiv websites, neither of which offers secondhand dealer listings as far as I know.
     
  22. AudioEnz

    AudioEnz Senior Member

    Here in New Zealand, TadeMe, the local equivalent of eBay, increases the length of the auction by two minutes should anyone bid in the last two minutes of the specified time. This makes a TradeMe auction much more like a live auction, and reduces the sniping activities.

    It would be interesting if eBay adopted this practise...
     
  23. heaudio

    heaudio New Member

    Location:
    Glendale, AZ
    I haven't seen it a lot, but it did happen to me once. I won a sealed MFSL Aqualung for $50, and paid for it immediately. The guy sends me an e-mail (and a refund) the next day, saying he can't believe it but his dog ate the LP. It was a puppy, and he'd chewed the corner off the box the guy had already packed for me and left by the door. Really selling it now, he then tells me he beat the crap out of the dog and dropped it at the pound. I said I was real sorry to hear that, but I'd be happy to pay the shipping if he would please send the LP anyway, since I could always use the labels (!). Needless to say, I didn't get it. I filed a report with eBay, and he unregistered.
     
  24. peterC

    peterC Aussie Addict

    Location:
    sydney

    Reminds me of Python's cheese shop sketch.....


    ............Oh, the cat's eaten it!
     
  25. dgsinner

    dgsinner New Member

    Location:
    Far East
    Seller's remorse -- when they fail to set a reserve or the minimum bid they want. Had it happen to me 6-10 times. Pretty cheezy if you ask me. I mean, if you (as a seller) want a certain minimum, then set it. Simple.

    Dale
     
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