I usually have your back, Lars, but that was pitiful

Agreed, but Lars doesn’t have any feel or groove so when he drifts in and out it’s stiff and jarring. Bonham & Porcaro would speed up at times etc because they weren’t using a click, but they had feel and it never sounded off. Shame as I like Lars but that was poor to my ears. Still, I’d take Lars over any drum machine, at least it’s human.

 

You know, Lars was never a great, great drummer but I’d say he was pretty solid early on. It’s when he got horrifically lazy (basically mid 90s on more or less) that it got to be a problem.

 

I don't agree with that, but you probably don't get why some people sincerely like the Shaggs.

 

When I watched the video an hour ago, my immediate reaction was that Lars' drumming really sucked on the song.
I just watched it again now and it wasn't that bad to be honest.
Weird.
I don't know.
Maybe I was being a bit harsh.
Is the arrangement a bit different from the original?
This is from 1991.

 

Is Lars even in the same time/place as the rest of the band? I see him there physically but mentally he's already off to never-never land.

 

I need a little more help. What happened?

This video performance was officially released by Metallica. If there was something really bad about his drumming or whatever, they'd never release it.

 

Prior to the Black Album, Lars would win "best" or "top" drummer awards and polls in Kerrang, Metal Forces, and other magazines.

What happened was Napster. People hated on Lars since that event (despite being correct) and the hatred snowballed from there.

 

That's quite a non-sequitur based on the fact that I think Lars Ulrich is a poor drummer. So you are saying that the same open ear that allows you to appreciate the Shaggs also means you appreciate the fine technique of Mr. Ulrich, where I just hear an out-of-shape guy aiming way beyond his reach?

 

I don't listen to Metallica on any kind of regular basis so I don't know if this is indicative of all their recent concerts but my first thought was he must be having trouble with his monitor to be losing the beat like that. Speeding up for no reason is what I noticed the most. Luckily everyone played through it like they were disconnected from what he was doing. Almost seems like someone edited his track to make him sound bad but that' s just wishful thinking.

 

The Napster debacle certainly didn’t win Lars any popularity contests, but I think 2 musical factors have also contributed to his lowered standing as a drummer:

1) Lars changed his style on the Black Album. The slower tempos exposed his weaknesses, namely timing and groove. While there are decent studio performances (edits?), Lars is exposed live.

2) Aging/Conditioning. In the 80’s Lars could overcome some of his deficiencies through sheer energy and willpower. In the 90’s, he became complacent and it shows in his drummer. Things have only gotten worse with age.

 

Again, he's simply doing some non-traditional, non-mainstream things with timing/tempo and rhythms.

A lot of appreciation of the Shaggs is due to departures from some structural norms, while (whether intentionally or not) suggesting some interesting alternate ways that music-theoretical materials can be approached.

There's a world of possibilities available that aren't explored very much, because it's very easy to fall into normative ruts. (And by the way, that's one thing that technology ironically hasn't helped with very much. Programmers, hardware developers, have tended to stick with the norms when it comes to what it's possible, or at least relatively easy to do with their hardware and software, because it's not cost-effective for them to make the weird stuff easily available. For example, it's not very easy to set up keyboards so that you assign specific pitches, defined in hertz or cents say, to each key--even though that should be easy to program--simply because it's not a normal way to approach music, so they don't bother making it available; it's not cost-effective for them to include features that people don't use . . . but then this just helps perpetuate norms where we don't explore a lot of possible tunings because the equipment doesn't do it)

 

^^^ I love this interpretation that equates Lars with Elvin Jones or something, LOL. The guy just can't play steady. He's not "exploring"; he's lost.

 

I could not agree more.

 

That's.... certainly the optimistic way to look at it.

 

He’s never been a great drummer. Plays waaaay too much behind the beat.

 

Just how intentional, on an intellectual level, he's doing what he's doing is something we can't really know. But at least intuitively, he knows what he's doing, which is why I pointed out that the fluidity of some of the rhythms and tempos is very consistent. In other words, the nonstandard stuff he's doing is something that's he's doing in a consistent way overall each time a particular section comes up, and the tempo, overall, is actually consistent, even though it's fluid on a smaller scale--when you look at particular "details" of the song (I'm using that like "detail" is used re paintings)

 

He has always done that.

 

Lars has timing issues. Next up, the shocking revelation that Kirk uses the wah wah pedal too much.

More than one thing can be true at the same time. Without even discussing the said performance of Enter Sandman, none of their songs sounds as brutal or assaultive as they did in the 80's.

My biggest takeaway from the demos on the box sets so far is that Lars was the perfect drummer for James. If James had been bouncing those riffs off of the vastly superior Dave Lombardo or Nick Menza the songs wouldn't have been as good.

Listen to the odd pull of the snare hits at 37 seconds of Disposable Heroes.

Lars was always an avid runner but he seems to have gotten heavier lately. Maybe he's having physical problems.

Or maybe a guy who's never been known as a metronome is going to go off the rails by times.

 

Right around 2:25 or so he flubs and then starts playing 'catch up'. The band has played these songs so many gazillion times that they probably play their part without relying on the drummer for tempo. Lars can catch up to or slow down for them.

 

I was referring to the Rush shred video I quoted.

 

Night and day better than the video posted by the OP.

 

If he had any feel or groove, that'd be one thing. Charlie Watts rarely ends a song at the same tempo he starts it, and it's both wonderful and inimitable.

But when, every time you do a fill, the rest of the band isn't quite sure when the 1 is going to come back in...no one wants that. I honestly don't know how the other 3 guys do it, but I guess they're making so much cash it doesn't matter.

 

I don't see anything really wrong with his playing here. The audience was having fun.
Everyone says they don't like "The Black Album", but look at the crowd response to that song!

Bet y'all don't like "Lulu" either, which I think is great!

Metallica, welcome to your esteemed place on our forum with U2 and Bruce Springsteen; no one likes you.

 

It is interesting, right?

All this complaining about fans stealing what is rightfully theirs and what do they end up doing...stealing from the very fans that put them in this very position to begin with just to make a few extra bucks.

I don't like this band so much. Never have. I liked "Some Kind of Monster" because I'm a sucker for just about any movie about bands going into the studio to make an album. It was interesting. But them as a band? Not so much. Not very interesting to me. Their songs are quite repetitive and only made the grade because of the amount of angry white guy energy that was injected into them (which is difficult to do as a unit, but still...they never did much for me).