Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by thebeatles67, Nov 28, 2011.
Ive seen the feedback--we'll see--
Id be tempted to email "1970grave" and ask him what the item was he returned.
The sellers got history of selling snide Beatles stuff
This is better than "Breaking Bad". I can't wait for the next episode and season ending finally!!
What red label Parlophone issue?
I think Love Me Do and Please Please Me were the only ones to be released originally with the red label.
OX--I think he was talking about the red lettering on the promo--(I think)
I think you guys are making too much of this. Judging by the machine stamped matrix numbers in the trailout groove, this promo looks like the real thing.
Such a deception should be relatively easy to spot. An original label will be pressed into the wax at the time the record itself was pressed, not glued on top of the record (like you would see on a styrene 45). Even if one is able to remove the original black label, it will leave a depression where the label once sat. And the replacement label (being larger in size) won't sit right on the record...not to mention there will be obvious edge to the label that one could feel with their fingernail.
But they don't look at all identical. Look at the shape of the push-out centres and the size of the raised part on the push-out centres.
There's many clever fakes out there, and unfortunately this is one of them.
This is clearly a Decca 'contract' pressing of that 45 - which accounts for the small centre boss and correct matrices - with a demo label skillfully attached over the regular one. They've even used 'oversized' labels which is a measure of how good these fakes are becoming.
ALL Beatles demonstration 45s were pressed by EMI only prior to the disc's release. Contract pressings were all produced by other companies (Decca, Oriole,Pye) in response to the huge demand/sales generated AFTER the disc's release.
BTW the same seller sold a similar 'demo' of 'Hello, Goodbye' in this format some months ago which was also a fake.
My advice would be to take it to a reputable dealer to have it checked out before your right to return it expires. Good luck!
Wow, I stand corrected.
I thought the same too...all demos were pressed by Emi and this one sadly wasn't.
look at the above posts, i'm pretty sure they're saying the record is legit, but the label has been switched out
Morning everyone and a big thank you to all that have posted--the good news from an email from the seller:
,Hi, I understand your concerns and I need you to believe me that I would never ever intentionally sell anybody a fake as I look upon this as criminal. The letters KT are there, but before I send this to you I will get it verified 100% that it is genuine. On Saturday I am going to Liverpool to visit The Beatles shop which is something I do regular, whilst I am there I will show them the demo and ask there opinion, if there is even 1% chance hat this is fake I will not send it to you and I refund you in full along with a full apology. I hope this puts your mind at rest.Very best regards,Laura.
I cant ask for better than that----Ive asked for a better photo of the label in better light as well. Thanks again for those that have enlightened me. truth is I did not know UK promo 45s were being booted--this one looks awfully good if it is a boot. Regards.
Yikes. It pays to do research BEFORE you buy big money items.
As Trashman said, you can't 'soak off' a label from a pressed vinyl record since it is pressed into the molten vinyl and immediately sets fully bonded. They even keep the labels warm in an oven and remove them just before the vinyl is pressed (maybe to remove moisture and to ensure the surface of the hot puck doesn't start setting before the press is finished) ensuring a really strong bond.
I think Revoxy is right that the bootleggers skillfully apply the fake labels over the top of the originals. Not that you'd want to, but you could try to 'soak off' the fake labels although you'd need to use solvents unless they used a water based glue which seems unlikely.
After reading the message from your seller, I decided to look up the auction on E-Bay. A few months ago, I had won a mono White Album from this seller that was described in EX+ condition. The seller overgraded the record. It was more like VG+. The 2nd disc was warped. I promptly sent the album back and received a full refund.
I hope your experience turns out to be better than mine. I would never buy from her again.
I don't want to come off as harsh or anti Brit in any way but I can't remember ever buying a record from a UK seller that knew how to correctly grade their vinyl. I'm sure accurate UK sellers are out there - I just haven't found them yet.
This should, of course, be the subject of another thread. I get a lot from eBay - there are many UK sellers that I know I can trust.
Some of them charge handsomely for the privilege, but not all.
Meanwhile, that promo I Want To Hold Your Hand looks rather nice, and that promo company sleeve even more so. I need to convince myself that I don't need them and that there's nothing wrong with my (bought back in) 1963 original stock copy, but...
That seller's feedback with noted counterfeits listed would scare me away from purchasing anything unusual and pricey from them. But a good return policy is still a nice thing.
PARLOPHONE DEMONSTRATION SINGLES: Fake Red & White Labels have shiny red "A" and very white paper. Later green labels have varying type-face. Parlophone labels would have "KT" embossed (see above), but as the fake labels are overlaid onto a standard issue, there should be no KT on a fake demo. Also, the paper trim around the center will not be perfect.
Thought it might help the discussion. I can't see a tax code on the images Mike provided.
I have exchanged additional info from the seller this morning. I think she is now aware there is a problem with her copy. I have agreed to let her consult with other sources Saturday but it looks as if Ill be getting a refund. I still want a legit one--back to my search.
Again thanks to all who provided input.
Another option would be to provide the pictures of the labels to Bruce Spizer or Frank Daniels and get their takes on it.
This one might have to be posted under the very long list of "if it looks to good to be true" categories. And there are people that would easily pay twice that amount (£730) for a legitimate copy in that condition.
This thread certainly demonstrates the value of a forum like this. Helping other members to understand how to spot a fake is a huge service to those who wish to collect such items and it is basically here for free.
As to the comment about the Brits over grading, I buy as little as possible from ebay, but when I occasionally do it is very clear that most US sellers over grade as well.
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