Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by Noel Patterson, Sep 2, 2020.
Have you ever paid for cable TV?
Maybe vinyl just isn't that into you.
The advent of 45rpm 2LP albums is a royal PITA. Ruins the flow of many an album and kills the experience. Otherwise, it remains a pleasure after all these years.
I have an excellent digital setup for streaming and even CDs, but I will soon be ripping the CDs to a NAS and playing them from there thru the Naim control App.
But I still have all my 50 year old vinyl (yes, I'm that old), and I'd love to put together a decent vinyl system with an MC cart, probably in a separate room.
I probably will at some point, and I may even go with tube amplification for it. Maybe a Decware or Primaluna integrated. It'd be fun, and sound great.
Well sure, but here you and I are. Again. I know they’re going to be a bit of a **** show, so I grab my popcorn and park on the couch to watch.
that's what a hobby is about.
yes I agree.
It took me less than an hour to understand that the CD was much superior to vinyl, and I'm talking about the early 80s.
Here, after 19 pages of nonsense we are still explaining why ....
Their intention and the reported effect are the opposite of what you fear. There is a link to their report in this thread. Sparkler Audio S512 D/A processor to improve CD sound!?
The problem is that is difficult to verify at the moment as there are no users in the forum or reviews yet.
Hmmh... I do feel old from time to time, but if others start to call me old, I'm probably underestimating my age (I'm 26)
I agree, convenience is the main reason for streaming. I use Plex to stream my own music from my PC via phone to Bluetooth devices in the living room. No need to get into recurring payments; pay once for the streaming option in the Plex app and be done with it.
Most people that own a 'collection' have much more music then they actually play; they even have complete albums that are almost never played, like they own stuff for the sake of owning it. That's what makes 'owning music' expensive.
I used to have a f*ton of DJ vinyl, because I always wanted to keep up with the latest releases, but I sold most of it. I also sold records of which I own its digital counterpart, when that has been mastered better. So the money was partially an investment, in contrast to streaming services, where the money is 100% gone once spend.
The only records I have nowadays are high quality pressings and a bunch of DJ records for sentimental purposes, in total about 250. Even 250 is more then I can play in a month, so that's good enough for me. Because of the ridiculous "vinyl revival pricetags", I rarely buy new records. If I want something completely different, I'll open foobar2000 and fire up a FLAC file through my USB DAC or dust off a CD - if I haven't ripped it yet.
I'm not quite sure if that's a fair comparison. Making music during a live performance isn't the same as music that is reproduced from a medium. With a live performance, you're there during the process of making the music.
Music reproduction is basically listening to the final result of something that has been played once long ago. Paying only once for that seems the most fair to me.
Whether you’re CD or Vinyl or both, upgrade/maintain your system when you no longer hear anything new in your collection.
I'm the same way. What I like to do is use the "Random Item" feature on Discogs. If you don't have your collection cataloged on Discogs, I recommend taking the time to do so - not just for the "Random Item" feature, though!
But....CDs are missing information. Vinyl captures the whole waveform!
Yup. That's exactly what I wanted to avoid when I plunged back in to vinyl several years ago!
I don't like the idea of overwhelming my home with records, nor of owning many records that I don't listen to (which means they are taking up space for nothing, to me). I don't want buying records to become feeling like hoarding.
(In fact, there is even something sort of off-putting to me about owning way more music than I'd ever listen to. I have friends who have terabytes of music on drives. They love it because...hey...they likely have anything they want to listen to on a whim. But they also have more than they would ever listen to in a lifetime, and to my mind there is a sort of wasteful imbalance if I had that much, something about knowing I possess a gazillion songs I'll never listen to seems silly. But that's a personal quirk).
So I have very carefully curated my album buying. When it comes to buying music I've never owned before, thankfully I can almost always find samples of albums on discogs or youtube. If I don't like the majority, if not all of an album, I don't buy it. I never buy a album for just one or two tracks.
The result is that I can reach blindly in to my collection and anything I'll pull out I will love, and enjoy essentially the whole album. And I know what's in my collection. (Whereas many of my saved tracks/albums from streaming have me looking at pages of "wait, who is that again?").
I have a record collection, but I don't think of myself as a "record collector." That's because I tend to think of a "record collector" as one who is in to it as much as for "collecting" as for the music.
This is the "I have to get every pressing of X album" - buying items for a sense of "completion" rather than records you'll listen to. Or tracking down special LPs or pressings because they are rare, collector's items, etc. My single criteria is whether I want to listen to the music. There is of course nothing wrong whatsoever with being a collector in the sense I just described. Whatever brings you joy. But I'm personally not driven by "building a collection" vs "building a music library."
(That said, I very much DO get the collector's thrill, insofar as I have music I selected for the music, but which are also "collectors items" type LPs. I own tons of Library Music - e.g. KPM, Bruton and many more obscure labels, and I love the fact when holding one that it is a quite rare artifact, and I feel lucky to be holding it in my hands).
If one listens to rock and just starts buying currently available vinyl reissues, then he is often basically just hearing CD on vinyl anyway.
If you listen to jazz, there are great analog reissues coming out right now, but with rock it is slimmer pickings and you often have to get vintage pressings.
Of course, some folks just won’t care or hear the difference in analog and digital. But if you have an interest in vinyl, I think it’s important to make sure you are hearing analog sourced vinyl. Otherwise you won’t even be enabling yourself to do a proper comparison and know what vinyl lovers are experiencing.
Yeah I don't really get that "completion urge", even though I did have various LPs double or even triple. Double/triple as in two or three of different pressings.
It's very interesting to compare them, to see how many differences there can be. I think the impact of the quality of the mastering/pressing is highly underestimated.
The apparent quality of the mastering can even depend on which type of cartridge you're using (stylus shape).
For example when a record is cut very loudly/"hot", some types of styli can track it better than others, so that you can get more dynamic range, without the cost of (IG) distortion.
Some records are mastered with a bit of a "warmth" to it, which will sound nice if you like that and if it fits your system/room acoustics.
So far, I've always been able to make up my mind and decide which pressing is best for me, so that I can sell the others and keep that best one.
Experimenting with various pressings, sources and equipment is an important part of the HiFi hobby IMO.
Well, cable TV is this thing that's been around for nearly 50 years where you pay a cable company and you get to watch lots of different TV channels, some with premium content such as movies. You don't own any of it, but you get access to the service for as long as you pay for it. Before VHS and DVD, it was the only way to watch anything other than local channels with rabbit ears. So my point is, streaming audio is basically cable TV for music. Cable TV didn't promise content either, the movies you watched one month might not be there later. Nothing really new or outrageous.
I agree with this more often than not, but some of the reissues I have heard from Rhino and Music on Vinyl are digitally sourced and still sound better on Vinyl. I attribute it to them using the best digital source available. I think vinyl still has a leg up in sound in many ways, even if you choose to get a digitally sourced record, mainly because some of the newer releases are at least using the best available digital source. Of course you have compaines like wax time and 4 men with beards. They shouldn't even be allowed to press records imo. They do nothing but a disservice.
As long as it's new content/live footage, I think that's just fine.
But if they broadcast old crap from archive most of the time, I would think that's a ripoff too.
Well, that's great because streaming services feature a LOT of new music. Sometimes music streams for months before you can even buy it in a physical format.
It’s easier to do digital on the cheap than it is to do vinyl on the cheap. I personally believe, and I’m not being snobbish or elitist by saying this, that you only really start to hear the true benefits of vinyl once you get past a certain price point. And it is also essential to spend a decent amount on a phono pre-amp. It’s certainly a more expensive route but when you hear what vinyl is capable of, it can be magical and move you more than any other format. All my opinions of course.
Yes, but you still have to pay endlessly (with some exceptions of expensive lifetime licenses). Instead of paying once. Just like cable TV back in the days.
Back then, there was no alternative; whether it's a ripoff or not is partly relative to those alternative options.
It's just like pricing of products; if a speaker is offered for 600 bucks at a shop, it's a fair price when it's close to what other shops ask for it.
If there are plenty reasonable alternatives - other similar shops that sell the speaker for 300 instead of 600 - most people would find it a ripoff if a shop tries to sell that exact same speaker for 600.
The introduction VHS you mentioned can be seen as progress, because people could pay for a movie once and play it as much as they wanted.
Don't get me wrong, streaming has many benefits... but when it comes to private property, streaming as a service is a massive step back.
Vinyl is not for everyone. That being said you have actually already answered your own premise by what you stated in your initial post :
"New records cost a fortune, and id say 20-30% are on crappy quality vinyl; scuffs, and terrible surface noise regardless of cleaning it. Even used prices are crazy. And factor in my laziness, getting up to flip sides, clean it, sit back down every 20 minutes..."
You've defeated any expectations before you've even started.
Streaming music isn't even as intrusive as cable TV is - you pay by the month and can quit at any time. "Paying endlessly" is a choice. I'd bet that nearly everyone here (including myself) spends way more on physical media every month than a streaming subscription costs, and streaming give you access to so much more than you can buy.
I don't see owning a copy of everything you might want to watch or listen to as self-evident progress.
It's been beaten to death, but if it enhances the experience for someone and they can afford it, then I think it is the best way to go for that particular person.
I was once gifted a hard drive with 2TBs of music on it, and already had one at the house with about 1.5. With that much music at my fingertips the music became less important to me. There was a sense of it being disposable and then I got in a stage where I wasn't enjoying it as much. There was so much music that 1I was constantly looking towards the next thing and not enjoying the music in the moment. I feel like streaming services cheapen music in that way. Its just my opinion, but I am not the biggest fan, although it does have its time and place and I do use streaming services on occasion, such as in the car or through a blue tooth speaker while outside doing yard work. There is nothing wrong with streaming and if it doesn't take away from the over all experience for you, then consider yourself lucky.
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