I was unaware how a CD works apparently

I was looking at CDs for purchase and came across many without cases for a dollar or two from a certain seller. Since the seller was not showing the bottom surface of the CD and I saw small bits of damage on the face I decided to reach out to him.

I should preface this stating that a couple weeks ago I purchased a ZZ top eliminator Target CD that had a the spot on the face the size of a head of a pin. I got the CD shortly after cleaned it and placed it in my player and fortunately one of the tracks was skipping. This led me to an education on how to clean and resurface CDs and after all I learned the CD was unrepairable. I informed the seller and they immediately refunded the money and said they didn't need the CD back.

Getting back to the seller I just recently saw damage to the face of their CDs this is what I sent: "Hello, I was looking at some of your CDs for sale. The ones that are without a case. Some of them look damaged. Since the information on the CD is placed underneath a thin film on the face of the CD and something has damaged the face of the CD it will be unreadable or unplayable. I'm not sure how these CDs were treated but if there are light scratches on the bottom of it it can be resurfaced and still played but if there are scratches on the top of it the damage may be irreversible. one way you can tell for certain is if you hold the CD up to the light and light comes through the CD then there are spots that will not play."

And this was his response:"
WRONG!!! The program is on the BACK of the disc which is NOT shown. Unless you have a new talent and can see through things you can NOT see any "damage". In addition to that ALL disc are tested & only get listed if they...... WORK!! What A thought. I honestly don't remember reaching out to you and saying how do discs work, you are not the only person who is uneducated enough to think the program is under the "film" it's NOT!! Also I'm pretty sure I know how the resurface machine works I can read & follow the use manual. Also I've sold thousands of resurfaced disc this year & have been selling them for several years. Any negatives or complaints I get are because buyers put dvds in a cd player or the game in the wrong system. I get that quarantine life is boring however that's not reason to send a seller a misinformed message they did not request. The top of a disk is BLANK & that is why the put artwork on it, the back were the ripples are that's the side with the program, google it!"

And then I received a second response:

"from my guide booklet from the resurfacing machine -
Scratches on the Label Side of Single-Sided DVDs
Scratches on the label side of single-sided DVDs are not likely to pose a problem. The metal layer so prone to damage in CDs is in the middle of DVDs. Its location makes this layer almost impervious to surface scratches; it is in fact unlikely to be affected by any but the deepest scratches-those deep enough to reach the center of the disc where the metal and data lie."

I was a little taken aback. obviously I'm not going to respond or even buy from this person. Out of curiosity I looked up his feedback. He has four negative feedback just from this month. He has 14 from this year. He has 24 neutral feedback from this year. I guess let the buyer beware. Read everything and think about things before you purchase.

 

The seller's obviously an idiot.

I have a CD that I encountered this problem you're describing with an 1/8th of an inch scratch on the top and it skipped. I tried the old polishing, toothpaste methods with zero results. Then I tried a Black felt pen Sharpie and it worked. Give it a try. Your Target CD won't win any beauty pageants but at least it may just play through in this nothing to lose situation.

 

I will try that trick. Not certain how that overcomes the problem. Maybe the laser reads information around damage and compensates. maybe it would allow the laser to power through that area instead of get hung up or skip. Thanks.

 

He sent you a second message where he admits you are right without an apology? Or is he such an idiot that he doesn't realize the second message admits you were right?

 

I vote for number 2.

 

Yes, I was surprised it worked. I suspect, but don't know for certain, that it compensated with error correction and it's just easier to accomplish this with a Black background blocking the laser as opposed to just passing through the opening. Let us know if it works for you too.

 

I think that he was trying to support his idea that discs are almost impossible to damage from the top. What he doesn't understand is that the top is so thinly coated that is very easy to damage the information from the top. You can't resurface the top you can only resurface the bottom.

Not certain what instructions he's reading when it said the location of the layer makes it almost impervious from damage from surface scratches. But it should have included from the bottom. It is unlikely to be affected by any but the deepest scratches. Again they should have said from the bottom.

I take all what he had said as a rebuttal because he thinks he is right so much so as to take the time to type out this lengthy message or actually two to throw information in my face. Needless to say I have not replied nor intend to.

 

Well I found a sharpie marker and very carefully put just enough of the ink on the face of the CD to blot out the sun. I popped a CD into the player and it still skipping. It was worth a try and I appreciate you letting me know. It only affects one song for a couple seconds. the song is one of the worst on the album in my opinion so it's no great loss. when I told the seller they immediately refunded my money so it's a free CD to me. I would have been happy to pay for a perfect copy but I only paid $4 so what did I expect?

 

It may be possible to repair that CD by ripping it. Sometimes ripping programs like EAC can read through those types of scratches and manage to get a good rip. Sometimes you may have to set the ripping program to rip at a slower speed. The slower ripping speed can sometimes help with reading through that sort of scratch on the top face.

If that doesn't work then rip to a full CUE style file (one big WAV and a CUE file). And run the ripped files through CUETools to do a repair. CUETools can sometimes be able to repair a CD. Depending on how many samples are bad and how those bad samples are distributed. If there are too many bad samples to fix then it will tell you. The process to repair a rip using CUETools is confusing, but doable.

 

Working in a used CD store I noticed when the wallet style cases had been in vogue for a couple of years we started getting cd's scratched through the metal from the label side. This caused our returns to increase so I stopped buying discs with these micro-scratches as I called them.

Here is a neat trick. Hold a disc read side up. Press on the label side with a finger nail. You can see the aluminum layer "bubble". Take the pressure away and the bubble goes away. That is how thin the plastic is on the label side!

 

Label side scratches = not good
Play side scratches = maybe not good.
Pinholes in the aluminium layer = were probably there when pressed and are fine and don't progress. More commonly seen in earlier CDs, I've found.

 

OP, you seem to rant quite a bit about sellers and transactions. Do you have positives to write about once in a while?

Just going by your recent posting history, you seem to be a rather intense buyer. Why not just ask the seller if the CDs you're interested in can be play-tested if you have any doubts? Or simply ask him what his return/refund policy is. Isn't that what it comes down to, really?

As a seller, getting a long message like this with no question whatsoever simply stating my merchandise looks damaged and then getting a lecture wouldn't result in much more than a deletion from me.

 

It might only work for Metallica's "black" album or AC/DC's "Back in Black".