Dismiss Notice
We are making some updates and reconfigurations to our server. Apologies for any downtime or slow forum loading now or within the next week or so. Thanks!

If you DON”T believe in nice speaker wire or interconnects please don't come into this thread

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by Funky54, Feb 21, 2021 at 5:07 PM.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Uglyversal

    Uglyversal Forum Resident

    Location:
    Sydney
    I though we were talking about producing wire? What is it now? If you want to add something, add skin effect or the interaction and reflections with the source and the load.

    I can see where this is going, if it makes you happy to think that is all you need, it's fine I won't insist.

    My two oldies do 10 and 40 or was it 80Mhz? I won, I won!
     
    Oelewapper likes this.
  2. Ingenieur

    Ingenieur Forum Resident

    L and C do not depend on the wire type.

    And my position is if a parameter measures the same regardless of material, purity, configuration, geometry, etc. they will sound the same.
    And if if the parameters differ greatly the change will be imperceptible to the ear, but possibly not the instrument.

    back on point: what are the parameters in addition to L, C and R?
    I posted the equations for 2 conductor L and C.

    this is R
    R = p x L/A
    p = resistivity of material
    L length
    A area

    so a longer wire with larger area will have the same R as a shorter, thinner one.
    If the materials p changes it can be compensated by adjusting L or A
     
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2021 at 6:39 PM
  3. Funky54

    Funky54 Coat Hangers do not sound good Thread Starter

    No no, we weighed the mass of each part... same. Therefore they work the same.
     
  4. The hum issue you describe is probably a ground loop issue vs. a cart issue. I’d go that route first.
     
  5. Ilusndweller

    Ilusndweller S.H.M.F.=>Reely kewl.

    Location:
    Columbus, Ohio
    I added "cables" to my post. At any rate, to how many digits do they measure the same to? I mean are they really the same? Im thinking certain peoples ears could be more sensitive than those measurements(and possibly other stuff, that could possibly even affect soundstage, remember I am playing devils advocate here, but yes I do feel some people can hear differences).
     
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2021 at 6:34 PM
  6. Ingenieur

    Ingenieur Forum Resident

    That is all reflected by the Z, if they measure the same, they will sound the same.
    Skin effect means nothing when discussing the signal in question and a cable carrying 5-10 times its I rating.

    I'm not sure it makes me 'happy', but it is fact.

    review page 4
    Using Fig. 6
    What is the skin effect for #12 at 10 kHz?
    Does it matter since the primary factor is freq which is THE SAME in both wires? And if Rdc is the same the skin effect will be also.
    Since C is predominant by a huge factor small changes in L mean nothing.

    Speaker mfgs. are not the first to understand these concepts, nor did they develop them.
    Although they exploit them.

    https://cdn.generalcable.com/assets...ds/brochures/mining-cables/MingCblEngHdbk.pdf
     
  7. Ilusndweller

    Ilusndweller S.H.M.F.=>Reely kewl.

    Location:
    Columbus, Ohio
    I'll argue both sides, bring it! :)
     
  8. Uglyversal

    Uglyversal Forum Resident

    Location:
    Sydney
    There is so much more to sound than measurements. Why don't you try two completely different set ups, add a DSP measure and adjust everything to have the same frequency response in the same room, then I would like you to tell me that the two systems sound the same.
     
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2021 at 6:43 PM
  9. KeninDC

    KeninDC Hazy Cosmic Jive

    Location:
    Virginia, USA
    I just removed some temporary Blue Jeans speaker cables, replacing them with AudioQuest G-2 bulk cables on my beach house system (Yamaha R-N303>KEF Q150). Smooth and clear. Better highs. I'm a huge fan of these inexpensive AudioQuest speaker cables for my secondary systems. Also use 'em on my Marantz 2238>B&W system at home.

    I'm happy with my Avanti Allegro cables for the main system (ModWright>Krell>B&W) by way of comparison, but honestly, my baseline cables are the cheap-ass AudioQuest cables.
     
    unclefred and Rick58 like this.
  10. Ilusndweller

    Ilusndweller S.H.M.F.=>Reely kewl.

    Location:
    Columbus, Ohio
    Can I get a heck yes? (memories from Laguna Seca Daze 96 when Spearhead got the crowd into a back and forth for a few minutes bc he heard someone up front yell heck yes)
     
  11. Ilusndweller

    Ilusndweller S.H.M.F.=>Reely kewl.

    Location:
    Columbus, Ohio
    Heck yes!!! :pineapple::goodie::pineapple::goodie::pineapple: (Schoeps cmc 64>Sonosax SX-M2>Panasonic SV-255)
     
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2021 at 6:54 PM
  12. Uglyversal

    Uglyversal Forum Resident

    Location:
    Sydney
    Isn't responding to yourself cheating?
     
  13. Ingenieur

    Ingenieur Forum Resident

    You did not measure all parameters
    For a cable: L, C, R

    a tire
    Aspect ratio
    Diameter, tire & rim
    Width, tire & rim
    Air pressure at a given temperature
    Tire Compound
    Tread depth
    Age/mileage

    actually a far more complex and dynamic system

    if the same within measuring accuracy, they will perform the same
    The variable being the driver :D
     
  14. Ilusndweller

    Ilusndweller S.H.M.F.=>Reely kewl.

    Location:
    Columbus, Ohio
    Here is a data point on cables (and driver :))

    Right now the Dark Side of the Moon CD being played in an Onkyo DV-CP702 DVD Changer then travelling through an Acoustic Research Master Series Silver High Definition RF6 Digital Grade Cable, missing screw on RCA cover on side entering Schiit Bifrost 4490 >Audioquest Evergreen (with its cold welded wire/plug interface and perfect surface copper wire)>Rogue Sphinx V2 (max volume, RCA cleartop tubes, this is a 100W/200W amp)>Black Cat Lectraline silver cables>83 dB Carver, 750 W Carver Amazing Silver MK4... is sounding pretty darn good right now. :)
     
    Echoes Myron and Ingenieur like this.
  15. Ingenieur

    Ingenieur Forum Resident

    Right now, thru coat-hangers.
    Could not make this sound bad if you TRIED!
    :D

    [​IMG]
     
    Ilusndweller likes this.
  16. ajax25

    ajax25 Forum Resident

    Location:
    New Jersey
    I have a question. In the professional recording studios where a lot of the stuff everyone is listening to is recorded, what are they using for cables? I don’t mean XLR or 1/4 inch, balanced or unbalanced. I mean the actual makeup of the cable itself. Anyone know ?
     
  17. Uglyversal

    Uglyversal Forum Resident

    Location:
    Sydney
    You'll probably find a variety of things including DIY but it was very interesting to see in a recent thread a youtube video of a cutting room where they were using cable lifters. Something which many people around here would only describe as witchcraft.
     
    head_unit likes this.
  18. Ilusndweller

    Ilusndweller S.H.M.F.=>Reely kewl.

    Location:
    Columbus, Ohio
    I would say with >95% certainty that your typical Mogami, Canare, Dueland, or whatever wire most recording studios use is "noticeably less in quality according to AQ standards" than AQs lowest grade wire(i.e. not as pure and thus more "distortion causing grain boundaries", etc)

    Though I will argue that metallurgical grain boundaries make for a warmer sounding cable. I mean dont warmth and distortion generally go hand in hand? :)
     
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2021 at 9:07 PM
    head_unit likes this.
  19. head_unit

    head_unit Forum Resident

    Location:
    Los Angeles CA USA
    But if you had spend $2000 on cheap zip cord, you could have spent the next 25 years uncoiling it! :laugh:
     
    Rick58 and Uglyversal like this.
  20. head_unit

    head_unit Forum Resident

    Location:
    Los Angeles CA USA
    Take your pick:
    - They can't because they don't have better numbers
    - They don't know how to do that
    - They don't need to because cables are actually a religion, based on personal belief, so why bring numbers into it? The sceptics will just shoot down any numbers with "yeah but that's too tiny to be audible." That hypothesis is undefeatable because in the absence of comparison, any decent cables sound fine. It's not like speakers, where cheap speakers sound cheap.
     
    timind likes this.
  21. head_unit

    head_unit Forum Resident

    Location:
    Los Angeles CA USA
    Sounds like a new Star Trek series focusing on Starfleet research labs...and even in the year 2300 they will still be arguing over whether cables make a difference...
     
    Rick58 likes this.
  22. Uglyversal

    Uglyversal Forum Resident

    Location:
    Sydney
    I'll give you my pick which you haven't included:

    They don't have too, any cable purchase is done in a more critical way than when I buy components.
    I just listen to them. No amount of glossy, sugar coated specs will make me buy an amplifier and no amount of lab tests will convince me to buy or not to buy a cable.

    They shouldn't argue, it seems the computer can just project the sound into the air so it'll be all about humidity , temperature and contaminating particles in the air, not need to mention mastering.

    Surprisingly, lieutenant Uhura still needs to wear that heavy looking earphone that can't be too good, as often she needs to cover it with her hand to hear better, so much for Digital in the future.
     
    head_unit, unclefred and 33na3rd like this.
  23. missan

    missan Forum Resident

    Location:
    Stockholm
    I think if we really want to know e.g. if there is a difference between ICs, the best would be to compare the cables by listening when inverting one cable. What do we then hear? How well are the cables nulling out.
     
  24. Ilusndweller

    Ilusndweller S.H.M.F.=>Reely kewl.

    Location:
    Columbus, Ohio
    This is obvious to me. Which also helps proves the point I am trying to make. But I am talking about equipment that is a lot more more expensive (since it has to be so sensitive/accurate/precise IMHO) than that DSP, and quite honestly, I not not feel will ever exist. Sometimes you cant beat (or measure) MaNa. :)
     
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2021 at 6:40 AM
    Uglyversal likes this.
  25. Bananajack

    Bananajack Phorum ... wat Phorum? Where am I?

    Location:
    Singapore
    Have a look at Vovox cables from Switzerland, a mainly professional producer.
    Just copper, very normal. They sound good btw, a friend runs 2 pairs.
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page

molar-endocrine